Canberra What If...FINISHED

[Deanflyer]

I've had this idea at the back of my mind for a while, and have even mentioned it to a couple of people on here, and with the What If GB being on I decided to have a go and see what happens. To Canberra fans, it'll seem the ultimate heresy, but I've already been pretty penultimately heretic with my Colourblind Canberra, so I can't get any deeper in it, can I? Some people in the Group build are putting jets in things like Spitfires and P-38s... I decided to go the opposite direction.

Backstory, true bits in blue type:

"In June 1928, a young RAF pilot was practicing aerobatics in an AW Siskin biplane in preparation for the upcoming Hendon Airshow. Although a gifted pilot, he was also noted as a reckless low flyer, and had numerous ‘red ink’ entries in his flying log book as reprimands for breach of the service flying regulations. However, at age 21 everyone believes in their own invulnerability. This aerobat was no exception, but having already written off two aircraft during practice and walked away unscathed, his sense of immortality was keenly felt by all.

It was during an inverted pass on the airfield below regulation height that the airman’s luck finally ran out. Witnesses reported that the engine seemed to stutter as it started to pull up from the lowest point on the pass, and that the pilot seemed to be struggling to keep the aircraft away from the ground. Realising that the lack of power would lead to a forced landing, the pilot was seen to roll the aircraft attempting to get the wheels pointing downwards, but the aircraft sank during the knife edge phase of the roll and the tip of the upper wing hit the ground. The wing was seen to dig in, cartwheeling the aircraft into the ground nose first at an estimated 100mph. The aeroplane literally folded up in an instant, and such an impact not being survivable, the pilot was pronounced dead at the scene upon the arrival of the medics. Pilot Officer Frank Whittle was buried quietly in London Road Cemetery, in his home town of Coventry without military honours.

In 1936, a young aeronautical engineer at the University of Gottingen named Dr Hans von Ohain conceived of an idea to produce an aero engine which would need no propellor. While working at the University, von Ohain often took his sports car to be serviced at a local garage, Bartles and Becker. Here he met an automotive engineer, Max Hahn, and eventually arranged for him to build a model to his design, which cost about 1,000 DM. When the model was complete he took it to the University for testing, but ran into serious problems with combustion stability. Often the fuel would not burn inside the flame cans, and would instead be blown through the turbine where it would ignite in the air, shooting flames out the back and overheating the electric motor powering the compressor. After several failed prototypes suffered the same problems, the difficulties were pronounced to be insurmountable, and having run out of money, von Ohain abandoned the idea. He was eventually absorbed into the Nazi war effort, designing piston engines for Heinkel until he was killed in an air raid in January 1941. His work on gas turbines was never followed.

In 1944, WEW “Teddy” Petter was working on a design for an RAF bomber which would replace the Mosquito. The idea was for as clean an airframe as possible fitted with the most powerful engines available, which (as the jet engine had never been invented) meant using a late derivative of the Rolls Royce Merlin piston engine. The aircraft carried no defensive armament, relying on the height/speed strategy as pioneered by the Mosquito, whose general layout the new aircraft would closely follow. (As Petter had also been responsible for designing the Westland Whirlwind fighter, the general twin layout was well known to him.) The prototype flew for the first time on March 30th 1947 and would be accepted into RAF service two years later as the Canberra. It’s career was moderately successful, but due to a general lack of power from only two engines, it was replaced in 1952 by a larger six engined bomber more capable of carrying large nuclear weapons the long distances required by the developing Cold War. As a relatively unknown type, few Canberra airframes survive in museums today. "

So, in summary, the jet engine was never invented and the Canberra was designed along more traditional lines using Merlin engines. I'm contemplating a lot of surgery here to produce what I envisage as a twin piston, tailwheeled aircraft, with a traditional bomb aimer's blister in the nose.

I'll need a couple of kits. These'll do:

So, anybody mind if I play?

Dean

Edited October 1, 2010 by Deanflyer

[Mark M]

oh crap deans at it again, hold on to your hats this is going to be bizzar!!!!!!!

[kspriss]

speaking as one of the aforementioned canberra fans, all i have to say is..

go for it..i for one will be watching this one closely

and on standby

[AnonymousDFB1]

Okay who left Deans cell door open? Oh well great back story Dean I think I'm going to like this one.

[Robert Stuart]

Hmm, I must be too new to these boards, this sounds interesting

... there's nothing in the back story to stop you adding rocket assisted take off (just a thought - ignore it) ...

Edited August 28, 2010 by Robert Stuart

[Deanflyer]

Blimey, I only turned my back to get a few photos sorted and I get replies already!

I actually started this yesterday, but my camera batteries were dead so I had to wait until today to get some more and take pictures. I haven't made this progress in the last five minutes...

The cockpit was amended slightly, as the tailwheel configuration leaves a handy nosewheel well to be used as a crew entry hatch. I'll hang a ladder from the hatch later, but for now there needed to be a hatch inside the wheel well roof and a passageway through the rear cockpit bulkhead to the interior. I also put in a floor for the bomb aimer's compartment, but needn't have bothered as it won't be seen. The seat is from the Lancaster, as there's no need for ejection seats in this thing, and minimally detailed with tape harnesses, again due to lack of final visibility:

The nose blister is from the Lanc too, and was added to a Canberra nose cone sawn off and carefully sanded to match the blister's diameter:

Then the fun begins. Take two wings, one Canberra and one Lancaster:

Saw a section out of the Lanc wing:

Do the same with the Canberra wing:

And after a bit of reshaping of the aerofoil section, shove the Lanc section into the Canberra wing. Line everything up level by eye, and fill the gap where the Canberra jet exhaust was with plastic sheet:

Then it's a case of repeating the process with the underside wing half, and doing it all again on the second wing:

(The main gear doors are sealed shut and will be puttied over, as the Lancaster undercarriage will be used situated in the nacelles)

Using a Dremel and a scalpel, open up the gap on the underside so that a Lancaster inner engine nacelle fits into it, with a reasonable thrust line and square to the longitudinal axis of the aircraft:

And see if it looks anything like right when you add the wings to the fuselage:

The nacelles look a bit toed out in this shot, but I can assure you everything is square in real life...

The extended leading edge of the Canberra wing inboard of the engines had to be removed as it would interfere with the Merlins' exhausts, so I sawed it off back to it's earlier configuration. A bit of round plastic rod is glued in the gap at the moment, waiting until the leading edge profile is built up with filler. I'm going to be doing a lot of filling and sanding on this very shortly!

Stay tuned,

Dean

[Max Headroom]

Utterly bonkers. I like it!

Trevor

[AnonymousDFB1]

Well it doesn't look 'wrong'

[Mark M]

i have section pepers at the ready........

glad your back mate

[bexwh773]

Ay up Dean,

I can see youve been spending far too much time with Old Melchy again havent you eh? Baaaaaaaaa........ Right then, I should be offended by this blatant blasphemy, however, having 1. Built a Whiffy Canberra myself, 2. seen your ingenious and awe inspiring handy work in the flesh & 3. After all, its only a PR9 and not a proper Canberra anyways

So, that aside, crack on my friend or should that be "Clever B*st*rd" as my Dad called you

Great start so far Dean, backstory works well and I cant believe Im saying this about two of my favourite aircraft becoming one, but it looks superb so far

Keep hanging around with Melchy and look forwards to more

Bexy

[Deanflyer]

Hi again folks, thanks for the comments - glad to hear I'm not upsetting people too much!

Not much progress, since I offered the wings up to the fuselage and despite my earlier assurances, the starboard nacelle did actually toe out from the fuselage. I couldn't live with that, so I pulled the thing off and redid it which took a bit of time. I also got a tiny bit of filler on the wings:

No doubt this will be the first of many rounds of PSR...

I also slapped a bit on the rear bomb bay insert as it wasn't a great fit and I had the filler there going off:

I'm using Isopon Metalik car body filler, as it's a two part filler which spreads smoothly, goes off in minutes, and sands quite easily and to a good finish. I've already managed to get a good approximation of the wing leading edge back with it. It's no good for small areas though, so Milliput is being used there.

I'm also using the Lancaster undercarriage on this and due to it's size, test fitting it the other night shows that this plane will have a nose high ground sit not unlike the Stirling. Might have to amend that if it looks too excessive.

I'm also considering paint schemes. I was going to do it with a standard dark green/dark grey/light grey Canberra scheme as there is no reason to suppose that this would have changed in my alternate universe, but I'm leaning towards a Mosquito style scheme now - overall light grey with green camo on the upper surfaces only. I briefly considered the Lancaster scheme of Dark Earth/Dark Green/Black with red lettering, but I think this would be a bit too retro for the time frame. Plenty of time to think though - it'll be a while before this is ready for paint!

I'm off to do some more sanding now...

Cheers,

Dean

[AnonymousDFB1]

Good progress heretic... I mean dean

[jynski]

I've had this idea at the back of my mind for a while, and have even mentioned it to a couple of people on here, and with the What If GB being on I decided to have a go and see what happens. To Canberra fans, it'll seem the ultimate heresy, but I've already been pretty penultimately heretic with my Colourblind Canberra, so I can't get any deeper in it, can I? Some people in the Group build are putting jets in things like Spitfires and P-38s... I decided to go the opposite direction.

Backstory, true bits in blue type:

"In June 1928, a young RAF pilot was practicing aerobatics in an AW Siskin biplane in preparation for the upcoming Hendon Airshow. Although a gifted pilot, he was also noted as a reckless low flyer, and had numerous ‘red ink’ entries in his flying log book as reprimands for breach of the service flying regulations. However, at age 21 everyone believes in their own invulnerability. This aerobat was no exception, but having already written off two aircraft during practice and walked away unscathed, his sense of immortality was keenly felt by all.

It was during an inverted pass on the airfield below regulation height that the airman’s luck finally ran out. Witnesses reported that the engine seemed to stutter as it started to pull up from the lowest point on the pass, and that the pilot seemed to be struggling to keep the aircraft away from the ground. Realising that the lack of power would lead to a forced landing, the pilot was seen to roll the aircraft attempting to get the wheels pointing downwards, but the aircraft sank during the knife edge phase of the roll and the tip of the upper wing hit the ground. The wing was seen to dig in, cartwheeling the aircraft into the ground nose first at an estimated 100mph. The aeroplane literally folded up in an instant, and such an impact not being survivable, the pilot was pronounced dead at the scene upon the arrival of the medics. Pilot Officer Frank Whittle was buried quietly in London Road Cemetery, in his home town of Coventry without military honours.

In 1936, a young aeronautical engineer at the University of Gottingen named Dr Hans von Ohain conceived of an idea to produce an aero engine which would need no propellor. While working at the University, von Ohain often took his sports car to be serviced at a local garage, Bartles and Becker. Here he met an automotive engineer, Max Hahn, and eventually arranged for him to build a model to his design, which cost about 1,000 DM. When the model was complete he took it to the University for testing, but ran into serious problems with combustion stability. Often the fuel would not burn inside the flame cans, and would instead be blown through the turbine where it would ignite in the air, shooting flames out the back and overheating the electric motor powering the compressor. After several failed prototypes suffered the same problems, the difficulties were pronounced to be insurmountable, and having run out of money, von Ohain abandoned the idea. He was eventually absorbed into the Nazi war effort, designing piston engines for Heinkel until he was killed in an air raid in January 1941. His work on gas turbines was never followed.

In 1944, WEW “Teddy” Petter was working on a design for an RAF bomber which would replace the Mosquito. The idea was for as clean an airframe as possible fitted with the most powerful engines available, which (as the jet engine had never been invented) meant using a late derivative of the Rolls Royce Merlin piston engine. The aircraft carried no defensive armament, relying on the height/speed strategy as pioneered by the Mosquito, whose general layout the new aircraft would closely follow. (As Petter had also been responsible for designing the Westland Whirlwind fighter, the general twin layout was well known to him.) The prototype flew for the first time on March 30th 1947 and would be accepted into RAF service two years later as the Canberra. It’s career was moderately successful, but due to a general lack of power from only two engines, it was replaced in 1952 by a larger six engined bomber more capable of carrying large nuclear weapons the long distances required by the developing Cold War. As a relatively unknown type, few Canberra airframes survive in museums today. "

So, in summary, the jet engine was never invented and the Canberra was designed along more traditional lines using Merlin engines. I'm contemplating a lot of surgery here to produce what I envisage as a twin piston, tailwheeled aircraft, with a traditional bomb aimer's blister in the nose.

I'll need a couple of kits. These'll do:

So, anybody mind if I play?

Dean

So this means I would be doing something else for a living? I work on jet engines and Sir Frank Whittle is the "Patron Saint" of jet engine mechanics. Would this be like a time-space paradox and I would magically be working at McDonald's? " Would you like fries with that?"

[Deanflyer]

So this means I would be doing something else for a living? I work on jet engines and Sir Frank Whittle is the "Patron Saint" of jet engine mechanics. Would this be like a time-space paradox and I would magically be working at McDonald's? " Would you like fries with that?"

Yes please, jynski. Although you wouldn't have to be working in Macca's, you'd have had an entirely different career to suit your particular engineering talents -as would everyone else if the jet hadn't been invented. There are plenty of people who currently have fulfilling careers despite the fact that we haven't invented slood in this universe yet... (ask Terry Pratchett about that one)

And as for Frank Whittle, I was born a mile and a half from where he was born - it's not everyone who has a patron saint as a next door neighbour!

Round two of Putty/Sand/Repeat is currently under way, round three approaching. Keep watching,

Dean

[Deanflyer]

Right, after five rounds of PSR, I've finally got the wings and nacelles blended in somewhere near. I've still got a few pinholes to fill, but it's nearly there. I started putting the undercart together, and decided to have a dry run as to how it'll look when it's all together. Just remember it's only held together with Blu-Tak at the moment, as I need access to rescribe some bits. The recess in the fuselage where the wing leading edge was is clearly visible still, and will be puttied over when the wings are on. I also decided to have the stabilisers on horizontally instead of at their normal dihedral - after all, there's no jet exhaust to keep out of the way of now, is there?

Looks odd with various bits in unpainted plastic, but here are a few hasty pics of where it is so far:

I doesn't look as wrong as I thought it would when I started...

Keep watching,

Dean

[AnonymousDFB1]

It looks... well... feasible

[TaiidanTomcat]

Wow! That is really something special... you could fool people with it too, hard to tell its a whif.

[Max Headroom]

Oh you are a sick sick puppy!

(smile, don't make eye contact and walk backwards slowly out of the room).

So wrong it's brilliant.

MH

[Vlamgat9]

That looks wierdly plausible......

[GreenDragon]

Excellent Whif Dean, and it really does look Big Mosquito-ish. Very cool design!

Paul Harrison

[Col.]

That certainly does look the part and as Paul says very Mossquito-ish. Cracking stuff Dean.

[keefr22]

For some strange reason that does look good!! Did you ever consider contra rotating props for it ? (You've got two spare after all!! I think they'd look very cool - would also fit fairly closely with your back story for it's in-service date?!)

Keef

[Deanflyer]

For some strange reason that does look good!! Did you ever consider contra rotating props for it ? (You've got two spare after all!! I think they'd look very cool - would also fit fairly closely with your back story for it's in-service date?!)

Keef

Funny you should mention that, Keef...I looked at the option of contra-rotating props yesterday when I cut the kit props from the sprue! I decided against it though, as the props fit inside the spinners, and it would have meant elongating the spinners to accommodate the greater depth of two props. Didn't fancy that idea...

Thanks for the comments so far folks, it's encouraging. I've been struck by the similarity to the Mossie as a few people on here have, so I'm edging towards a paint job which reflects that - any opinions, anybody?

Short break for work now, back soon,

Dean

[Devilfish]

Did you ever consider contra rotating props for it ?

Along those lines, did you not consider Griffons, with 5 blade props? The sleeker Spit PR19 cowling would have fitted in better with the hi-speed bomber approach too.

[Deanflyer]

Along those lines, did you not consider Griffons, with 5 blade props? The sleeker Spit PR19 cowling would have fitted in better with the hi-speed bomber approach too.

Can't say I did actually...I was more concerned with getting a couple of nacelles on there with an undercarriage built in, so a couple of Spit noses would just have complicated matters beyond what I was prepared to do already.

Nice idea though - maybe someone in the What If GB could do it as a Mk2 version...

Cheers,

Dean