Vol 2 All the Spitfire questions here

[PhantomBigStu]

was rummaging around on goofle looking to see if I could uncover any additional BoB spits with coloured spinners in addition to the two well known ones, but instead found by chance this image, what the hell is going with the camouflage

[Graham Boak]

It's a warbird. Who cares about the camouflage? Clearly not the guy who painted it - though if we are being charitable perhaps the owner was busy scraping together the pennies for a repaint ASAP. Or maybe he just liked it like that - it's his Spitfire, he can paint it however he likes.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Graham Boak

[Relja]

was rummaging around on goofle looking to see if I could uncover any additional BoB spits with coloured spinners in addition to the two well known ones, but instead found by chance this image, what the hell is going with the camouflage

Reminded me in an instatnt of the illustration on the box of the old Hobbycraft Spitfire XIV in 1/48...

[Portamus]

Hi there guys,

Long time reader, second or third time poster....

This one is aimed for Edgar's attention... We dont have alot of Spitfires in South Africa anymore, and the one we do have is a Mk VIII. I managed to get around the bird during a visit to the Saxonwold musuem recently.. and I would like your opinion on the accuracy of the cockpit/interior colors/etc to use as a reference for an upcoming VIII build. Now I'm not 100% sure what work, if any has been done to the Spitfire. I know that the other museum aircraft (including a 2 seater, 262 nightfighter, and an Fw190A-6... have both had some work done).

So here are the pics..

Radio compartment

Cockpit area

What are your thoughts/views on the above?

Many thanks in advance!

Portamus

[politicni komisar]

Thanks to this picture will be very helpful.

P.k

[Troy Smith]

Hi there guys,

Long time reader, second or third time poster....

This one is aimed for Edgar's attention... We dont have alot of Spitfires in South Africa anymore, and the one we do have is a Mk VIII. I managed to get around the bird during a visit to the Saxonwold musuem recently.. and I would like your opinion on the accuracy of the cockpit/interior colors/etc to use as a reference for an upcoming VIII build. Now I'm not 100% sure what work, if any has been done to the Spitfire. I know that the other museum aircraft (including a 2 seater, 262 nightfighter, and an Fw190A-6... have both had some work done).

What are your thoughts/views on the above?

Many thanks in advance!

Portamus

My thoughts...bloomin' great photos. Looks like the paint is mostly original, maybe some grey-green touch ups in the cockpit. Edgar should know more, but these are great.

a quick search says

Spitfire HF Mk.VIIIc JF294. South African National Museum of Military History, Johannesburg. SAAF serial 5501.

JF294 VIII 3885 EA M61 FF 19-1-43 Casablanca 8-43 India 10-43 SAAF Flew non-stop Cairo to Cape 3-44 extant National War Museum Johannesburg as 5501

cheers

T

[Vanroon]

Hi there guys,

Long time reader, second or third time poster....

This one is aimed for Edgar's attention... We dont have alot of Spitfires in South Africa anymore, and the one we do have is a Mk VIII. I managed to get around the bird during a visit to the Saxonwold musuem recently.. and I would like your opinion on the accuracy of the cockpit/interior colors/etc to use as a reference for an upcoming VIII build. Now I'm not 100% sure what work, if any has been done to the Spitfire. I know that the other museum aircraft (including a 2 seater, 262 nightfighter, and an Fw190A-6... have both had some work done).

What are your thoughts/views on the above?

Many thanks in advance!

Portamus

Thanks for the lovely clear photos of the Mk.VIII.

The only Spitfire near here is a Mk.22, so seeing your photos, I went directly to references and it appears that aircraft is in 'as used' condition. The Wings and Wheels Publication No.26 on the LF.Mk.IX has pretty well matching colours for all the surfaces and equipment. P.119 mentions "bare metal finish from seat support frame back".

G

[Troy Smith]

Thanks for the lovely clear photos of the Mk.VIII.

The only Spitfire near here is a Mk.22, so seeing your photos, I went directly to references and it appears that aircraft is in 'as used' condition. The Wings and Wheels Publication No.26 on the LF.Mk.IX has pretty well matching colours for all the surfaces and equipment. P.119 mentions "bare metal finish from seat support frame back".

G

Not bare metal, aluminium paint. All the interior surfaces, eg gun and engines bays, apart from the cockpit are painted aluminium.

At some point later, can't remember if there is a firm switch-over date, these changed to grey-green.

[Edgar]

As Troy has surmised, it looks as if it's been "got at," in some areas.

In photos 3 & 5 there's a hint of green along the "floor," and the silver, above, is incredibly shiny, almost as if the interior was partially stripped, and given a similar gloss finish, when the exterior was done.

The seat bulkhead in photo 8 looks as if it's been partially overpainted, possibly while the seat armour was still in place, so that (now the armour's gone) the "proper" green is visible just above the compressed-air bottles. Other areas of the cockpit have hints of two-tone green, as well.

[Portamus]

Many thanks for your reply Gentlemen,

Edgar, I would like to know your opinion as to if the configuration of this Spitfire would be similar to a Mk VIII that I believe my grandfather flew...

JF274 VIII 3660 EA M61 FF 24-11-42 First prod VIII Hand Sqdn Hullavington 29-11-42 AST 21-6-43 VAWD 9-11-43 wts and CG load 82MU 11-5-44 Argyll 1-6-44 Casablanca 13-6-44 MedAAF 21-6-45 SOC 27-3-47

I have used his logbooks, as well as squadron diary records (kindly provided to me by a 145 Sqn historian). The serial JF274 appeared in a number of places, where my grandfather flew sorties in ZX-V.

Being the first production Mk VIII, I am aware that it would have had several things in common with the Mk VII, including the extending wing tips? If so, would it be safe to assume that JF274 and JF294 would be very similar in their configurations?

Here are two scans from photographs I found in his logbook/briefcase just after he passed away...

One is of a Spitfire Mk VIII, that he flew with 145 Sqn RAF in Italy,

And secondly... one of an SHF Spitfire IX, when he was with 9 Sqn SAAF. I believe this aircraft may be MA504

[gingerbob]

One point, if you want to do JF274, is that I believe it had a bulkier version of the filtered intake than became standard. I would agree pointed wingtips.

bob

[Bedders]

A quick question from me: in the event that I was doing a Spitfire 21, would it need to have metal or fabric elevators?

Justin

[PhantomBigStu]

Probably wrong but the fabric was gone long before the 21 afaik

[Edgar]

Metal elevators were one of the mandatory mods introduced on the 21, following the damning A.F.D.S. report of 1-2-45. The inside faces of the elevator horns were also rounded off, and a "straight" (rather than Z-shaped) rudder trim tab was fitted. Following these (visible) mods, the 21 was cleared for service use, provided that the mods were incorporated before delivery.
The only Spitfire metal elevators which (just) pre-dated the 21 were those on the low-back XVI.

[Bedders]

Thanks Edgar, really helpful. So Spitfire XVI low-back also had them, and I'm guessing from what you say that the Seafire XVII did too?

Justin

[gingerbob]

Not necessarily- the metal elevator was necessary for the XVI with the aft fuselage fuel tank installation, but they didn't stop building XVIs just because somebody stole their elevators to use on 21s! I don't know about the Sea 17 offhand.

bob

[Edgar]

Metal-covered elevators were being fitted to the XVI in late 1944, and the rounded horns, on the 21, meant that they were not interchangeable.

The introduction of metal-covered elevators on Seafires, in December 1944, included the 15, so I'd be surprised if it didn't spill over onto the 17.

[gingerbob]

Here's the comment I had in mind. I note now that this says "IX"- I may have been wrong to think that the XVI was lumped together with the IX, but I'm not sure one way or the other.

19/3/45 (AVIA 15/1762)

Spitfire

i) CRD and ACAS(TR) agreed priority for metal elevator to 21 over IX with increased fuel. this would probably involve using two months' worth of elevators previously earmarked for IX. Working party already incorporating part of interim mods in sqn a/c.

ii) IX increased tankage

DDTD referred to the CFE report. now cleared for service use.

[Edgar]

Bear in mind that the XVI's metal elevators were not fitted by Supermarine, but were part of a whole raft of modifications, for that particular Mark, carried out at 30 M.U., Sealand. Though the Air Ministry wanted all aircraft to have the extra fuel tank, Wing Commander (Ops 1) was vehemently opposed to this in 11 Group, due to the loss of performance, and it seems likely he got his way.

[Sean_M]

on a side note on the SA spit. I know the prop blades were swooped out and donated to "Evelyn" when they were restoring her. I don't know if the was anything else that was cannibalised. It a pity we can't all club together and by the Mk I that's up for grabs. It will be sad to see such an important piece of British history leave the shores, if it comes to that. And don't throw stones. everybody on Facebook has given me a thousand reasons why we can't keep her

[Sky Pilot]

Having just completed my build of the "New" Airfix Vb Spitfire - option B, JHC BM597 - I have just noticed that the decals for the prop blades show that the blades are numbered 1, 2 and 3 but there is no indication of the "direction" in which the numbering is applied i.e. clockwise or anti clockwise. A decal on the base of the spinner indicates that the prop's direction of rotation is clockwise when viewed form the front of the A/C. Can anybody please advise ?

By the way, the prop blades on the A option provided by the kit are not numbered. Any comments would be appreciated.

TIA

[Mark12]

It's a warbird. Who cares about the camouflage? Clearly not the guy who painted it - though if we are being charitable perhaps the owner was busy scraping together the pennies for a repaint ASAP. Or maybe he just liked it like that - it's his Spitfire, he can paint it however he likes.

TE330 taken 13 October 1957

Nope not a Warbird.

This is a Mk XVI Spitfire of the RAF restored by the RAF as part of the embryonic Historic Aircraft Flight (Later the BBMF).

At this time this is what the RAF thought a WWII Spitfire used to look like.

The first of three similar Mk XVI's (SL574 & TE476) restored to flight at this time, this one was gifted to the USA.

PeterA

Edited May 9, 2015 by Mark12

[Mark12]

JF294 heading South, the first Spitfire to South Africa in late 1943 in its 'High Altitude' original finish.

PeterA

[Work In Progress]

Fairly rare to see a VIII in those colours. Impressive oil leak, too.

[gingerbob]

A decal on the base of the spinner indicates that the prop's direction of rotation is clockwise when viewed form the front of the A/C. Can anybody please advise ?

That's not right- the prop on Merlin Spits goes 'round clockwise from the pilot's seat. Don't know about the marking you refer to (I don't have the kit yet), but something ain't right.

bob