The Airfix Seafire XVII - WIP, sort of...

[TheModeller]

Nice kit.

Plenty of good reviews coming out and a few of the finished models on various sites.

I decided to clear my bench, sort-of, for this kit as I just love the balance and symmetry of the original. Like the Mk.XI its purposeful but not as 'muscular' as the later Griffon Spits and Seafires.

I'll take some pics tonight but I've spent a couple of days on some background and dry-assembly before I start gluing and painting, if anyones interested here are a few things I've worked out for my model that might help.

I chose to do the wings out, I've seen a couple of models with them folded but I haven't used those parts to I don't know if some of these issues apply.

The full-span lower wing is very thick at its tips and a test-fit revealed a significant step between the lower wing and the wingtip itself which is moulded as part of the upper wing. I spent a few hours sanding the mating surfaces to take care of the step, if you sand the insides then you dont need to grind away lots of plastic on the underneath of the wing after its glued together.

The fit of the assembled wing to the fuselage is going to be very tight, so much so that I'd recommend firmly gluing the wings together starting at the tip and working inward, glue the tips making sure to butt the lower wing tightly into the wingtip rebate, clamp it in place and let it really set solid, then work your way inward to the roots,

The reason for this is that the lower wing has too much dihedral moulded in, at least it has in my kit, it might be warpage but I did look at my other one in the stash and they're both the same, when you come to fit the wing and fuselage together you will find that because of the tight fit the dihedral will be forced to the correct position, if your wingtips aren't really solid then the seam might let-go!

Initially I thought I'd need to trim the fuselage root-fillets back but after a second dry fit with the wings clamped together I found that the dihedral was correct, so I reckon its meant to be a tight fit.

The trailing edges of the wingtips and ailerons are huge! Real doorstop material! The tips are fairly simple to scrape and file and sand to an acceptable edge, the ailerons are more problematic as there is less span to work with, I'm thinking of sanding the trailing edges back, adding a strip of thick plastic strip and then sanding that back flush with the ailerons surface to give me a decent trailing edge.

This issue is a bit annoying because if you look at the rudder and elevators the trailing edges there are as good as you could hope for in plastic kit, so Airfix can do sharp quality tooling, just not all at once!

Usually when I build a Spit I drill out the seat frames lightening holes 'cos its easy and adds a little to the look of the cockpit, on this kit there is no point, the seat frame just can't be seen at all once the seat and armour plate are in place, the armour is very nicely moulded being chamfered around the edges giving the effect of being convincingly thin!

The rudder pedal and linkage moulding in my kit was lacking a pedal due to a short-shot, I lopped the other one off, cleaned up and fitted a pair I found in the spares box, from the Academy XIV I think, so it was good for something after all!

I might dress up the sidewall detail a little, its a little vague and 'low-relief' for my tastes and would benefit from a little attention if you plan to leave the canopy open as I do.

The final point is fitting the cockpit interior, I trimmed away the moulded rail that the notch in the instrument panel and seat frame are supposed to locate too, its a little bit of a squeeze but I can now build up the interior seperately and not worry about damaging or messing it up while I join the fuselage and clean up the seams.

Like I said, I'll try to do some pics tonight and tomorrow, I really like this kit and reckon its got a lot of potential.

Edited July 14, 2011 by TheModeller

[dhtmo]

Hi

I got mine the other day and will follow this carefully. It seems another cracking new tool from Airfix.

I certainly enjoyed the Spit MkXII, and this one promises much.

Cheers

Dave

[Miggers]

Interesting points to look out for once I'm at the wings stage with mine.

Thinking of modifying the lower wing panel to do the port extended and

the stb'd folded with a few 1/48th ground types about to remove the

bracing strut and fold the wing down(they fold by the "Armstrong" method

on the real one).

I've already drilled out all the lightening holes in the seat frame and the panel,

also scratched up a pair of rudder pedals(the kit blobs are naff)and set them to

reflect the way that the rudder will be booted over.

Also had some thoughts about fitting a "lower fuselage" between the seat frame,

the panel and the bulkhead just behind the rudder pedals(scratched up that bulkhead too).

Cockpit wise,I'll probably just add some copper wire to represent the u/c quadrant and

Ki-Gas primer plumbing,then give the rest a carefull painting and wash to "lift" the detail.

For me,the XVII is the best asthetically of all the Spit/Sea series,brutish,purposeful

and powerful yet still sleek and graceful.

The high back broadchord ruddered PR.XI and then the PR XIX come a close second and third.

Mark

[Homebee]

I started mine two days ago and everything went rather smooth except the step between the lower wing and the wingtips.

Even not overdetailed, the cockpit is OK for me. I'll add seat belts and canopy will be presented closed.

I also replaced the air scoop atop the front fuselage as well as the belly and wingtips navigation lights. I thinned down the radiator boxes & flaps

SX311/167(BR), 1833 NAS, RNAS Bramcote in 1952. Freigthdog Decals of course.

EDSG is OK, Sky follow.

What a beautiful aeroplane!

V.P.

Edited July 16, 2011 by Homebee

[TheModeller]

Nice work and yep, I think the Mk.IX and the Seafire XVII are the most balanced examples of the Spit. The single-stage Merlin marks lack the twin radiators and look lop-sided, the late Griffon types don't look as graceful, the XVII is a really beautiful aircraft.

Only two days! I'm impressed though I work a lot slower than that!

I was going to post some pics but came to do some tidying up of some details I've corrected last night and found my Milliput had dried out and crumbled in the package so I'm off to buy some more, I'll get some pics up tomorrow of my slow progress!

I'm adding a little in the cockpit to busy it up along with a brass harness from MDC, the radiators need a lot of work to look to scale instead of made from breeze-blocks and there are a lot of little tweaks to take care of like the cowl-intake and opening up the exhaust stacks, still its a nice kit, the only fit issue being the really thick joining faces at the wingtips, other than that is a straightforward solid bit of kitting.

The big let-down is the god-awful prop! But there are options for that, I'm trying to scratch-out a matching set from some spare Aeroclub Mk.21 blades but I hear John has some Seafire props in stock so that might be easier than trying to make 4 identical blades by hand!

I figured out that I've made more work for myself because the overall silver one I want to do off the Freightdogs sheet is an FR.XVII so I need to drill holes and sort out fittings and glazing!

Edited August 24, 2011 by TheModeller

[Miggers]

Watch paint build up around the edges of the interior frames and their locating

points inside the fuselage.

Everything seems to be very tightly toleranced and a few microns of paint

is pushing the fuselage halves open around the cockpit area on my dry fits.

Out with a cocktail stick and thinners to clean off the locating points and a light

buff with a sanding stick around the frame edges for me.

Mark

[TheModeller]

Everything seems to be very tightly toleranced and a few microns of paint

is pushing the fuselage halves open around the cockpit area on my dry fits.

I haven't started paint yet, and already in a test-fit the instrument panel seems to be stopping the fuselage halves meeting properly, not much of a gap but I don't like to use filler if i can fix the fit so I'll be fiddling some more.

Work has slowed my progress but I've managed to improve the radiators...

I also lined the outer spent-cartridge ports with thin strip so the match they inner ones more closely. I did away with the kit prop blades because they're so awful and I've cut down an old Cooper Details Mk.22/24 prop to suit, as I'm planning to finish it as the FR.XVII from the Frieghtdogs sheet I've also drilled and reamed out the camera ports and given its a late XVII I'm also making a pair of fairings for the upper wing surface that were fitted to accomodate the bigger tyres used with the 3-spoke wheels.

I tend to work like this most of the time on a kit, test-fit, make my alterations, corrections and modifications and then start with the glue and paint...

I'll get some more pics up tomorrow as I have a free day and can crack-on with the last bits.

Edited August 19, 2011 by TheModeller

[Naun123]

The big let-down is the god-awful prop! But there are options for that, I'm trying to scratch-out a matching set from some spare Aeroclub Mk.21 blades but I hear John has some Seafire props in stock so that might be easier than trying to make 4 identical blades by hand!

John who?

[TheModeller]

John who?

John Adams of Aeroclub, scroll down to the traders section on the forums home page, Aeroclub have a dedicated section, Dave Gibson started a thread about Mk.XII and Seafire props, John replied saying he had stock.

[Miggers]

Like the work on the rads.

You've what I shall be doing too.

Had a similar idea for the link and case ejector ports too.

Mark

[TheModeller]

I promised an update on my work so far with this kit, please bear in mind that the whole thing is rigged together with Tamiya tape and Blu-Tac!

My apologies in advance for the poor lighting in my pics, my floodlamp I usually use seems to have taken a walk and is nowhere to be found so I've had to make do with all the desklamps I could find at short notice!

Starting in the cockpit, like I said before the sidewall detail is a little vague for me, if I was going to build this kit with the canopy open I'd look at some more work to make it shine a bit. As it was I decided on canopy-shut, adding a few details like a new throttle handle, an MDC seat harness and some odds and ends from scrap strip and sheet, the control column was canted over to match the aileron position.

Underneath I lined the outer spent-shell ports with very thin plastic strip to make them closer in size to the inner ones, I don't know why Airfix did this wrong but its the self-same error in the Mk.XII kit, I re-worked the radiator fairings and made new flaps for them as the bits in the kit are shockingly poor as they come, the bright side is that the plastic is very workable and it only took a few hours to improve this area a lot! I still have to add some bracing rods to the flaps.

You can't really see it in this image but the trailing edges of the flaps and wingtips have been thinned and refined drastically! The ailerons called for a lot of sanding to match...

On the top you can see my scratch made wheel-bay fairings added to accomodate the larger 3-spoke mainwheels included in the kit, I worked these out from photos and I think the cross section isn't as curved as it should be but once they are glued down I'll blend and sand them some more. There are some extra panel lines to add after the fairings are finished.

You can also see the drilled out exhaust stacks and camera ports for the FR.XVII I'm doing.

Those stacks again along with the camera port and wheel bay fairing, the holes in the rollover pylon were drilled out. The canopy is very finely moulded but you need to be careful removing it from the sprue as its very brittle, I still need to do a little clean up to mine and the transparencies would all benefit from a polish and a dip in Klear to add some sparkle, they are a bit dull out-of-the-box.

Hope you can see the 3-spoke wheels, I junked the kits 'flattened' optional tyres as they are just too extreme! Instead I cleaned up the round tyres and then sanded small contact patches onto them, the tyres in my kit were very badly moulded with quite a distinct step round them and a lot of flash present.

What you can't see are the drilled out torque links and tie down brackets on the gear legs and I still have to add some brake lines.

The prop blades are Cooper Details Mk.22 blades cut down a few millimetres and reshaped, the kit supplied blades are really poor.

In all its been a lot more work than I thought it would be, after all its only a Spit! The main problems are the thickness of the radiator fairing mouldings, the wing/flap/aileron trailing edges and the horrible prop, the rest of is not bad at all and can be improved no end with a little effort.

Next step is to pull everything down, paint the cockpit and then out with the glue!

Edited July 24, 2011 by TheModeller

[iang]

Very nice work.

I have this kit too and am generally impressed with it. However, built up the kit has a bit of die-cast look to it, caused, in my view, by the exaggerated panel lines. Personally, I think that a light sand all over and gentle re-scribe along the existing lines with a needle would improve the appearance of the finished model no end. Of course, this is just my preference. I'd be interested in your views having dry-built the kit.

[Jose Pedro]

Love the work you´re doing!

[TheModeller]

Very nice work.

I have this kit too and am generally impressed with it. However, built up the kit has a bit of die-cast look to it, caused, in my view, by the exaggerated panel lines. Personally, I think that a light sand all over and gentle re-scribe along the existing lines with a needle would improve the appearance of the finished model no end. Of course, this is just my preference. I'd be interested in your views having dry-built the kit.

Thanks, its been fun doing most of it without aftermarket. Just the harness and the modified resin prop-blades.

Yep, the panel lines are heavier than I'd like too but I think the final choice of paint-job will go a long way to improving that, and resisting the urge to slop black paint in every line on the kit!

A grey over sky finish will probably do a lot to give the panel detail a more 'in scale' look, alas I've made a rod for my own back by choosing a painted aluminium aircraft!

Personally I'd avoid doing anything to re-scribe the detail, I have an old Squadron tri-grit sanding stick I use all the time and on the wings I found that a good buffing with the coarsest grade on the stick improved things a lot, I have'nt done that to the fuselage yet but I'm going too and am hopeful for a similar improvement. The buffing also takes care of the slightly satin surface finish.

[lufbramatt]

nice work indeed, although I'm really not convinced that the prop blades are an improvement on those in the kit. They look way too broad to me. If you look at the relationship between the chord of the root of the blade, and the panel line halfway up the spinner, the f22 blades look way to fat.

[TheModeller]

nice work indeed, although I'm really not convinced that the prop blades are an improvement on those in the kit. They look way too broad to me. If you look at the relationship between the chord of the root of the blade, and the panel line halfway up the spinner, the f22 blades look way to fat.

Well the kit blades are awful looking nothing like the real thing...

I see what you mean but I'm happy with them as a replacement, FWIW the root and blade profile wasn't much different between the XVII and the 22/24, just a smaller diameter. Although I'm not entirely sure that panel line on the kit spinner is in quite the right place anyway...

EDIT: Ah, and I've just realised, the blades are wodged in place with a big blob of Blu-tac at the moment and aligned right forward in the spinner opening, they should sit much further back to be aligned properly with the kit hub, thats making them look broader as they are closer to that panel line!

Edited July 25, 2011 by TheModeller

[lufbramatt]

yep, i think it should be slightly further forward having had another look!

[Miggers]

Any chance of the dimensions of your over wheel well bulges please?

They only need a little work to curve them,SX336's are quite flat.

The instrument panel certainly needs a fettle to get the fuselage to close around it,it's pretty tight!!!.

Also the gull wing section needs some work,mine's port wing root is a little off at the flap end,

other than that it's quite good around the wing roots.

Good idea with the wheels,the flattened ones do need a little air in them!.

Mark

[TheModeller]

Any chance of the dimensions of your over wheel well bulges please?

They only need a little work to curve them,SX336's are quite flat.

Well the measurements I've used are 11mm front to rear and 9mm across the widest point, they look to be broader at the front than the rear but they are worked out entirely from pictures of SX336 by comparison with the length, width and position of the cannon breech fairings. If you do a Google image search for 'seafire SX336' there is a lovely pic of her doing a pass banked over, it shows the shape and position of the fairings very well.

Found it again... Pretty big picture so I'll only include a link: http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/media...-old-warden.jpg

I couldn't find any drawings of the wing showing them, at least not one I'd consider trustworthy, and I don't think the FAAMs one has them fitted. I can't guarantee they dimensions are correct, they 'look' right to me and I'm the only one I'm trying to please but feel free to use the measurements if you want.

They blend very smoothly into the wing surface so now they are glued on I'll have at them with a little superfine Milliput and work it with some water.

Good idea with the wheels,the flattened ones do need a little air in them!.

Yeah, I doubt the poor thing would have got far along the runway with those tyres on it! Nice try by Airfix to give you the option but they need to be a little more subtle in the handling of such options. Fortunately the 'full' tyres are up to the job and look a lot more convincing with small flats sanded in.

Edited July 28, 2011 by TheModeller

[Miggers]

Thanks for that.

I thought to measure the tyre at it's highest point and work from that,without checking,I reckon you're not far off at all.

Mark

[gingerbob]

...if you look at the rudder and elevators the trailing edges there are as good as you could hope for in plastic kit, so Airfix can do sharp quality tooling, just not all at once!

I think you've hit the nail on the head. But I'm delighted they did this- when is mine going to arrive?!

What I really wanted to say was, "Nice work so far, and both your method and the results seem excellent!"

I'm not taking a position on the prop dilemma, though yours did strike me as rather "abrupt" at the tips. By the way, I believe I have you to thank for the knowledge that Spit XII and Sea XV/XVII props aren't (effectively) the same. One of the many details I hadn't looked closely enough at yet!

bob

[keefr22]

Glad I found this, as I have this one getting ever nearer to the top of the 'to-do' pile, & you're providing some very useful info here! Neat progress too, & certainly not slow when compared to my build rate!!

One thing I'd like to ask though - I'm going to build the same machine from the Freightdog sheet, & with regard to the camera ports in the upper fuselage I've been a bit confused by some of the things I've seen during my 'research'. I've read that the camera was actually fitted on the port side of the fuselage & thus the panel that side had (obviously!) a clear port. But then I've read the starboard panel was only an access hatch for the camera. I've found drawings of the stbd side that show both a solid panel & one with a clear camera port in! I haven't been able to find a picture however - do you know of one that shows a clear camera port on the stbd side?

Looking forward to seeing this one progress, I think the silver machine looks lovely!

Keef

[Seahawk]

Glad I found this, as I have this one getting ever nearer to the top of the 'to-do' pile, & you're providing some very useful info here! Neat progress too, & certainly not slow when compared to my build rate!!

One thing I'd like to ask though - I'm going to build the same machine from the Freightdog sheet, & with regard to the camera ports in the upper fuselage I've been a bit confused by some of the things I've seen during my 'research'. I've read that the camera was actually fitted on the port side of the fuselage & thus the panel that side had (obviously!) a clear port. But then I've read the starboard panel was only an access hatch for the camera. I've found drawings of the stbd side that show both a solid panel & one with a clear camera port in! I haven't been able to find a picture however - do you know of one that shows a clear camera port on the stbd side?

Looking forward to seeing this one progress, I think the silver machine looks lovely!

Keef

In all my rummaging through my references for Seafire F.17 pics, I can recall only seeing 2 of an aircraft with camera ports. They are both on p.106 of the Crowood book and depict both sides (!) of SX334. There is definitely a port on each side: on both photos you can see right through both ports. The aircraft has no unit markings so could well be captured while on trials work, hence no camera. As you'll note, the Freightdog scheme is based on a photograph provided by Richard Caruana, which I don't have.

PS I wasn't actually looking for camera ports at the time (more wheelhubs and -bulges) so cannot 100% rule out having seen others that didn't register.

[TheModeller]

I'm not taking a position on the prop dilemma, though yours did strike me as rather "abrupt" at the tips.

They still need a little refinement at the tips, but a sanding stick will take care of that, glad to be able to help on the subject of the props.

Camera ports were on both sides of the XVII, this pic I have of SX334 is probably one of the ones in the Crowood book and you can clearly see straight through the fuselage.

I'm under the impression that the oblique camera could be swapped from port to starboard, the Wyvern had a similar setup I think though in practice the starboard port was often painted over, I don't know if this was done very often on the Seafire.

[davidelvy]

I'm under the impression that the oblique camera could be swapped from port to starboard, the Wyvern had a similar setup I think though in practice the starboard port was often painted over, I don't know if this was done very often on the Seafire.

I think that must be right. The cameras would have taken up a lot of room and I doubt that two could be squeezed in back to back.