Airfix Sea Vixen Rocket pods

[Ingo Degenhardt]

Hi there,

I think I read something about the Airfix kit's rocket pods somewhere - but do not remember where or what it was.

Question: Are the four rocket pods suitable examples for those used by the RN? Or are -for example- the Matra rocket pods by Flightpath (looking slighty different) a better option?

TIA

Ingo

[Duncan B]

Hi there,

I think I read something about the Airfix kit's rocket pods somewhere - but do not remember where or what it was.

Question: Are the four rocket pods suitable examples for those used by the RN? Or are -for example- the Matra rocket pods by Flightpath (looking slighty different) a better option?

TIA

Ingo

I do remember reading that the pods had too much of a step between the rows of tubes when viewed from the side, apparently the front cone should be just that when viewed from the side. I'm not sure if there are enough tubes either.

[Selwyn]

Hi there,

I think I read something about the Airfix kit's rocket pods somewhere - but do not remember where or what it was.

Question: Are the four rocket pods suitable examples for those used by the RN? Or are -for example- the Matra rocket pods by Flightpath (looking slighty different) a better option?

TIA

Ingo

Ingo

The pods in the Kit are correct. The RAF used 68mm SNEB rockets, but the Royal Navy used 2 inch rockets. The reason was that it was found that SNEB rockets were vulnerable to the power put out by ships radars on Carrier decks and were likely to fire on their own from an induced current from the radar system. 2 inch rockets were much more resistant to this by design.

If you look at pictures of RAF Harriers used in the Falklands they also used navy 2 inch pods not SNEB. There is a famous picture of a crashed Harrier GR3 showing a 2inch pod on the outboard pylon.

Selwyn

[Ingo Degenhardt]

Ingo

The pods in the Kit are correct. The RAF used 68mm SNEB rockets, but the Royal Navy used 2 inch rockets. The reason was that it was found that SNEB rockets were vulnerable to the power put out by ships radars on Carrier decks and were likely to fire on their own from an induced current from the radar system. 2 inch rockets were much more resistant to this by design.

If you look at pictures of RAF Harriers used in the Falklands they also used navy 2 inch pods not SNEB. There is a famous picture of a crashed Harrier GR3 showing a 2inch pod on the outboard pylon.

Selwyn

Thanks for the information! So my Flightpath pods would fit -for example- a GR.1 Harrier or a GR.3 (non-Corporate).

Ingo

[Selwyn]

Thanks for the information! So my Flightpath pods would fit -for example- a GR.1 Harrier or a GR.3 (non-Corporate).

Ingo

Ingo,

You are correct, the SNEB pod was a standard fit on GR1/3 (and T2/4 Harriers) usually on the outboard wing pylons

selwyn

[bungynik]

I've just get this kit today and you just have to love it.

I have read the new review http://inscale.org/pub/index.php?topic=1287.0 and again, except some stupid imperfections like sink marks and ejector pin marks nothing really bad.

But I would like to ask someone who have this kit about Rocket launcher pods. Mine RP are the same as on the photo in this review. Are we speaking about the bad molds generally, or I wasn't lucky. And do you guys know, is there any 1/48 scale kit with properly molded RN 2-inch rocket pods? I didn't found any third party of these on the market.

And I would ask you for one more information... The Microcell 2in. Rocket launchers were deleted on later FAW.2 Vixens, so I would like to know is that referring on brand new built FAW.2s or these were deleted on some of the FAW.1 converted as well? I couldn't find any reliable info regarding this.

And interesting thing is that very often I read about Matra or SNEB 68mm launchers on Sea Vixen, but the guy stated that those were never used on FAA aircraft and that those were not even cleared for use. I know that SNEB wasnt exist in Sea Vixen time, but can somebody comfirm that Matra launchers were never used on Vixens? I know that RAF have Matra Type 2 (24x68mm) and later 155, but even Airfix in description of Sea Vixen have stated the Matra RPs.

Yes mate, a lot of confusion in a various articles all over the net and in literature. But I have read once an explanation, that could be reasonable and logical. It was stated that Matra 68mm launchers couldn't pass the FAA rigorous stress test for take off and landing including the emergency ones. But then, those Matra RPs were used on French carier based aircrafts, so it could be that different procedures and regulations were present in FAA.

I was confused when I sow that Roy Sutherland mentioned the Matra RPs in his Sea Vixen review at Hyperscale and he is the one who wrote the book about Vixen. But still I can't find nowhere any evidence of using the Matra RPs with FAA carier based aircrafts.

So in my opinion, the guy at inscale could be fully right regarding that. Did anybody have any photo evidence of using the Matra RPs on any FAA aircraft?

Another issue that confusing me in that inscale review is that he is mentioning the 682lit (150 imp. gallons) underwing fuel tank. But I have read somewhere that Vixen were used 200 gallons fuel tanks???!!! So many different informations about the same thing when researching Sea Vixen brings me crazy! I'm completely confused .

Here we have the problem that a lot of unreliable information regarding vixen floating around and even the Airfix become part of this. So, the information I have is that, besides some tests, FAA has never had in its inventory Matra launchers and never approved for use the same. The launchers in Airfix kit were intended to be RN 2-inch rocket pods but are badly molded as you can see on the photo.

[Selwyn]

Here we have the problem that a lot of unreliable information regarding vixen floating around and even the Airfix become part of this. So, the information I have is that, besides some tests, FAA has never had in its inventory Matra launchers and never approved for use the same. The launchers in Airfix kit were intended to be RN 2-inch rocket pods but are badly molded as you can see on the photo.

The FAA did use the 68mm SNEB pod, there are many pictures of RN Hunter GA 11 aircraft fitted with them. they were just not used on carriers.

Strictly speaking SNEB pods (155) could and were fitted to Vixens, I know because I personally did it! But before you get excited this only happened because the Sea Vixen aircraft in question were used by the RAF as load training aircraft at RAF cosford they never to my knowledge ever flew with SNEB rockets.

Selwyn

[Selwyn]

Here we have the problem that a lot of unreliable information regarding vixen floating around and even the Airfix become part of this. So, the information I have is that, besides some tests, FAA has never had in its inventory Matra launchers and never approved for use the same. The launchers in Airfix kit were intended to be RN 2-inch rocket pods but are badly molded as you can see on the photo.

Having had experience of 2" rockets the moulds look very accurate to me . 2" rockets are not pointed, and do have rounded heads so the moulds are correct!

Selwyn

[bungynik]

This is the 2-inch RN rocket pod under Sea Vixen... if you think that Airfix one is correct than OK!

And GA. 11 were used by Fleet Requirements and Air Direction Units and were flown by civilians. It could be the case that GA. 11 were used for testing the 68mm SNEB then, as I have already mentioned, but FAA never used SNEB regularly and never have SNEB regularly in inventory. It is possible that these SNEBs were transfered by RAF to FAA in a packet with GA. 11 for testing and training purposes.

Edited July 17, 2011 by bungynik

[Ingo Degenhardt]

Hi,

I am still confused..

Below are two rocket pods - left is the Airfix kit pod and to the right its Flightpath' 'Matra rocket pod' (smaller in diameter and shorter)

To me the Flightpath pod looks more the part as posted above....??? Is this a 2 inch pod? And what would the Airfix part resemble then?

TIA again,

Ingo

ps: as I just noticed, the Flighpath part has fewer tubes (two rows only) than the one in the original photograph above)....

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Edited June 30, 2011 by Ingo Degenhardt

[lufbramatt]

The airfix ones are right, but the ribs between the rocket tubes are very thin and dont always mould properly, leaving the stepped effect evident above. There should be 3 rows of rockets, not 2.

Edited June 30, 2011 by lufbramatt

[Selwyn]

Hi,

I am still confused..

Below are two rocket pods - left is the Airfix kit pod and to the right its Flightpath' 'Matra rocket pod' (smaller in diameter and shorter)

To me the Flightpath pod looks more the part as posted above....??? Is this a 2 inch pod? And what would the Airfix part resemble then?

TIA again,

Ingo

ps: as I just noticed, the Flighpath part has fewer tubes (two rows only) than the one in the original photograph above)....

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Ingo

The Airfix Sea Vixen kit pods are 2inch (50mm) rocket pods used by Royal Navy aircraft (and RAF Harriers when embarked on a carrier) they fire British 2inch rockets.

The other pod (on the right) is the Matra 155 rocket pod for firing 68mm SNEB rockets (a French design)and were used only by the RAF. 68mm SNEB rockets cannot be used on carriers due to safety concerns.

They are two different rocket systems the rockets are not interchangable.

Selwyn

Edited July 1, 2011 by Selwyn

[bungynik]

The airfix ones are right, but the ribs between the rocket tubes are very thin and dont always mould properly, leaving the stepped effect evident above. There should be 3 rows of rockets, not 2.

This is the exactly the problem wit Airfix launchers. But it is not that "don't always", but rather all molds are faulty. I hope that they will correct that in the future, so we will finally have proper 2inch pods.

[Ingo Degenhardt]

@Lufbramat, selwyn, bungynik - thank you very much, I got it now!

[AnonymousAA72]

Ingo

The pods in the Kit are correct. The RAF used 68mm SNEB rockets, but the Royal Navy used 2 inch rockets. The reason was that it was found that SNEB rockets were vulnerable to the power put out by ships radars on Carrier decks and were likely to fire on their own from an induced current from the radar system. 2 inch rockets were much more resistant to this by design.

If you look at pictures of RAF Harriers used in the Falklands they also used navy 2 inch pods not SNEB. There is a famous picture of a crashed Harrier GR3 showing a 2inch pod on the outboard pylon.

Selwyn

..regarding the RN 2" pod used on the Harrier GR3 in Op.Corporate....Silver or White? B&W pics are hard to decipher! I suspect the latter given that anything dangly on anything operated from a flat top would probably be that colour, but any thoughts welcome......I built this one a few years back, assuming white was correct.......

Edited October 16, 2013 by Bill Clark

[Selwyn]

..regarding the RN 2" pod used on the Harrier GR3 in Op.Corporate....Silver or White? B&W pics are hard to decipher! I suspect the latter given that anything dangly on anything operated from a flat top would probably be that colour, but any thoughts welcome......I built this one a few years back, assuming white was correct.......

IIRC RN "2 rocket pods were the same colour as Harrier Undercarriage legs, (admiralty grey?)

Try this link a poor picture but does show colour

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?um=1&sa=N&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbnid=jXHYfKrm4TYf3M:&imgrefurl=http://www.visitscotland.com/about/arts-culture/year-of-creative-scotland/science-innovation-technology&docid=4JpQqfqw7tmlWM&imgurl=http://www.visitscotland.com/cms-images/5x3-large/year-creative/24128/planes-national-museum-flight&w=570&h=342&ei=LHpeUruvC8is0QXw4IDABQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=651&vpy=363&dur=6608&hovh=174&hovw=290&tx=138&ty=97&page=1&tbnh=138&tbnw=228&start=0&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:0,i:127

Selwyn

Edited October 16, 2013 by Selwyn

[AnonymousAA72]

IIRC RN "2 rocket pods were the same colour as Harrier Undercarriage legs, (admiralty grey?)

Try this link a poor picture but does show colour

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?um=1&sa=N&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbnid=jXHYfKrm4TYf3M:&imgrefurl=http://www.visitscotland.com/about/arts-culture/year-of-creative-scotland/science-innovation-technology&docid=4JpQqfqw7tmlWM&imgurl=http://www.visitscotland.com/cms-images/5x3-large/year-creative/24128/planes-national-museum-flight&w=570&h=342&ei=LHpeUruvC8is0QXw4IDABQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=651&vpy=363&dur=6608&hovh=174&hovw=290&tx=138&ty=97&page=1&tbnh=138&tbnw=228&start=0&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:0,i:127

Selwyn

It would certainly make better sense than White, however, I'm still thinking that up to '82 the underside of RN aircraft were white, as were it seems the stores. Not sure if these pods were cleared for use on SHARS so that should date them back to the old Ark Royal, with Buccaneers (& maybe even Phantoms).......

[AnonymousAA72]

It would certainly make better sense than White, however, I'm still thinking that up to '82 the underside of RN aircraft were white, as were it seems the stores. Not sure if these pods were cleared for use on SHARS so that should date them back to the old Ark Royal, with Buccaneers (& maybe even Phantoms).......

I may have answered my own question here.....Just had a look at Pat Martins superb Phantom book, and there's a photo on page49, of an 892NAS FG1 with SILVER 2" pods. (Dated July '71) that'll do for me..............

[SaintsPhil]

That's an interesting photo, is there a story behind the 'Royal Navy' on the tail, or was it just added for the museum display?

[Col.]

Had a look at my Sea Vixen kit and sure enough the pod nose is a little mishapen as well. Not going to be fun trying to fix that fault.

Nice GR.3 by the way Bill. Not seen one of your finished models for a while and it's a Harrier as well so a rare treat.

[AnonymousAA72]

Had a look at my Sea Vixen kit and sure enough the pod nose is a little mishapen as well. Not going to be fun trying to fix that fault.

Nice GR.3 by the way Bill. Not seen one of your finished models for a while and it's a Harrier as well so a rare treat.

Thanks Col., its a few years old is that one........must get a few more finished!!

I really don't like the look of the pods in the Sea Vixen kit. Those in the Harrier GR3 (which I've used) are a lot better - which is astounding really given its age!