Help interpreting Dora photo pretty please!

[rowmk9]

Hey guys and girls (yes there are a few out there, girls that is)

I'm building a 1/32 Fw190D-9 at the moment and I'm trying to work out the scheme for the aircraft I'm planning to depict.

Here are the decals I have and I'm looking at this aircraft, 'Blue 2' from IV/JG3 based at Prenzlau at the end of the war.

And here is a picture of what I believe to be the same aircraft, just behind 'Blue 1'.

What I wanted to ask is about the camouflage and area around the exhaust exits. It does look like this area has received some paint to lessen the exhaust staining immediately after the exits. I say this because the rest of the fuselage side by the cockpit is fairly clean (for a Dora). There does seem to be a fair amount of bare metal around the wing root and a previous JG 'Defence of the Reich' band has been oversprayed with RLM75. It also looks like a previous unit marking has been oversprayed and by the looks it was a chevron with bar, or possibly just a chevron.

Anyway, I'm welcome to hear your opinion and suggestions as to the subtleties of this scheme. I'm thinking RLM75/83 over RLM76 for colours but I'm open to suggestions.

Edited April 1, 2011 by rowmk9

[_H_]

Hi Rowan

On page 122 of Crandalls vol1 is a profile of blue 2. He gives the same colour callings as yourself 75/76 & 83. He also says there are oversprays of the geschwaderkommodores markings with a bare metal half circle under the gun cowl. He days say that there isn't a black exhaust panel, meaning it must just be a build up of staining.

Hope that helps mate

Howard

[rowmk9]

On page 122 of Crandalls vol1 is a profile of blue 2. He gives the same colour callings as yourself 75/76 & 83. He also says there are oversprays of the geschwaderkommodores markings with a bare metal half circle under the gun cowl. He days say that there isn't a black exhaust panel, meaning it must just be a build up of staining.

Cheers Howard for looking that up for me. I see a small oval 'bump' on the bottom of the gun cowl that straddles the join between cover and fuselage, looks like in the pic the bottom part is scratched down to bare metal. No black panel? ok, I think prefer them without it anyway. I thought it might have been because of the sharp transition from dark to fairly clean RLM76.

It almost looks like both aircraft have had nose sections from different aircraft put on because the camouflage pattern doesn't match up very well under the machine guns. I don't know about that though, thats just pure speculation and I have no idea how feasible or common a practice it would be.

[_H_]

It was fairly common Rowan because the nose and engine would have been built and painted in a different factory than the rest of the aircraft. As for the gun cowling and the bare metal under it I would say (purely speculation) that the plane had three piece mimetall type cowling on it at one time as opposed to the focke wulf style one it's wearing in the pic. The mimetall cowl had a little bump in that exact place. The pic also shows the rear most latch on the cowl to be bare metal too.

Crandalls profile also shows the aircraft to have rlm75 on the underside leading edge of the wing and the upper section landing gear door.

I may be able to scan and send you a copy of the profile and info if you require it mate?

Howard

[487 Squadron]

As far as the gon cover goes, I know JG44 machines were sometimes refitted with the later covers - perhaps the same in this case?

[rowmk9]

I may be able to scan and send you a copy of the profile and info if you require it mate?

Howard

Oh yes please Howard, that would be great if it's not too much trouble

I'll send a PM. Thanks already, you've been very helpful

As far as the gon cover goes, I know JG44 machines were sometimes refitted with the later covers - perhaps the same in this case?

Seems it may have been the case for this machine. I'll likely keep the kit one to keep things simple, I'm not sure if it's the later one or not!

[_H_]

If you can post a pic of the gun cowl I'll tell you.

The cowl on the aircraft in the pic is the most common one fitted to the D-9's so I reckon Hasegawa will have moulded that one as the Mimetall version is pretty bloomin rare by all accounts.

I have replied to your PM mate

Howard

[rowmk9]

Here's the gun cowl in situ.

Chances are it is the most common type, but I don't know!

[_H_]

Yeah just a little bump to add if you can be bothered Rowan and that'll do it

[miduppergunner]

I do not know if it is relevant but the same picture at the head of this topic appears in Vol 3, Luftwaffe Camouflage and Markings - Smith & Gallaspey with the caption referring to the

"....two nearest aircraft, red 1 and red 2 (probably flown by the Staffelkapitän and his wingman) may have belonged to 15J/G 3 which was led by Oblt. Oskar Romm btween january and february 1945. Traces of a white rear fuselage band on red 1, possibly the defence of the Reich band allocated to JG£"

Edited April 2, 2011 by miduppergunner

[_H_]

Certainly is relevant mate. I'd be inclined to say the numbers are blue though due to they way they show on the picture as being a touch lighter than the Hakenkreuz. Red normally shows as black (or near black)

I am, as always happy to be proved wrong though

Maybe Neil (Falkeins) will be along as his knowledge on the subject is faaaarrrr superior to mine in all thing Luftwaffe and plus he's a really nice bloke!

Howard

[rowmk9]

Yeah Neil is a great guy, he's helped me before with Luftwaffe enquiries. I hope the numbers are blue because thats the colour of the decals! It is difficult to tell though, but that's part of the fun/frustration I think.

I may attempt adding that bump on the cowl, is it just on the starboard side?

One other thing! The decals supply a fictitious Wr.Nr. (601803). This may be getting too technical but would that number match the production Block it came from? I'm not going to agonise too much about it so if it's not possible to ascertain then I wont be losing sleep over it.

[_H_]

Hi Rowan

Bump on both sides of the cowling mate. 600 block is completely different so I wouldn't put that on if I were you.

Howard

[miduppergunner]

Howard, I could post a copy of the picture with the Numbers very black if you wish!!

[rowmk9]

Hmm interesting. Well debate away! I have other back-up plans should this marking choice prove to be more red than blue

[_H_]

Howard, I could post a copy of the picture with the Numbers very black if you wish!!

Ha ha fair enough

In all seriousness I'd stick with blue as you have the decals for them and I think its most likely

Howard

[rowmk9]

Yeah I think I will too, seeing as you've helped me find out some more information about this aircraft and I like the story that the airframe tells (previous unit, etc). I don't think I've seen this one modelled on the forums before either, including Hyperscale and modelling madness which is rare for a Dora!

[_H_]

Yeah that's true I don't think I've seen it modelled before either. It's certainly an interesting airframe atleast to me. I really can't wait to see your model take shape Rowan. I hope those scans have helped you mate.

Not massively related to your build but on the picture you've posted it looks like the aircraft on the left of the pic is a rare D11/D13! I see Mr Crandall noticed it but no more information on it seems to have surfaced

Howard

[rowmk9]

well I'm working on her right now as it happens so there'll be more progress updates either tonight or tomorrow

And yes, it does appear to be a D11/13 doesn't it? The picture quality is poor but it appears to have a smooth cowl meaning no machine guns in the nose. How wonderful would it have been if the pictures had been taken by modern cameras? It would have solved/produced alot of debate!

[tango98]

Hi Rowan,

Just a bit of idle trivia about the machine in the left upper corner. It was first identified as either a D-11/13 circa 1986 by David E.Brown. He had made this determination from a much better copy of the photo than is usually published.

As for the two in the foreground I'd be inclined to go with blue for the numbers although the possibility exists for them to have been red.

Cheers

Dave

[_H_]

Hi Dave

I never knew that, thanks for sharing. It's one of those things where I wish I had a time machine

Howard

[tango98]

Hi Howard,

David Brown also did much of the original research of the JV 44 D-9s many years ago but has never really received his due credit for that either.

Cheers

Dave

[_H_]

Really?! Well I've learnt something today. I must admit I had not heard of the gent.

Howard

[rowmk9]

well we are in his debt then. Although the amount of times a JV 44 D-9 is seen on modelling forums makes them appear much more common than they really were.

[FalkeEins]

.. I was going to keep out of this one, but I just thought I'd mention a couple of things..

FWIW 'Blue 2' was for a long time 'Green 2' being an aircraft originally assigned to the Gruppenstab of IV./JG 3 (Prien 'IV./JG 3 - Chronik einer Jagdgruppe' ). I think Squadron with their 'Walkaround' title were the first to suggest it had 'blue' numbers which I found rather surprising at the time, but which seems to have become the accepted wisdom ever since....

The 'white' tail band referred to in a previous post is the unpainted metal of the Dora's rear fuselage extension plug...

looking forward to seeing the finished build Rowan !

Edited April 3, 2011 by FalkeEins