1/32 hawk question (another one)!

[jet-mech]

First post on BM after being a keen lurker for some time!

I've been asked to complete a 100sqn hawk for a member of the squadron and I'm just wishing to know just how accurate the revell offering is? As all you hawk lovers know, there is a fair bit of rivet detailing around the tail section. I'm just wondering if this is replicated on the model or would it be best paying for some raised rivet detailing from eduard??

I'm also pretty sure that the current 100sn machines use the Martin baker mk10 ejector seat. Are these available in 1/32 resin parts??

Has anybody heard about release dates for the add-on's yet??

Hope that's not too many questions

Many thanks in advance for any info given.

Regards

Pete

[Iain Ogilvie]

Hiya Jet-Mech,

I'm doing a 100 Sqn bird too

Tail end lacks the dome rivets.

Seats - IMHO kit seats can be dressed up quite nicely - but your mileage may vary.

John at Aeroclub is producing a metal gear set.

Dave Parkins (Flightpath) will have quite a range of accessories too.

If not beaten to it I'm going to produce a flap set.

Iain

[andym]

First post on BM after being a keen lurker for some time!

I've been asked to complete a 100sqn hawk for a member of the squadron and I'm just wishing to know just how accurate the revell offering is? As all you hawk lovers know, there is a fair bit of rivet detailing around the tail section. I'm just wondering if this is replicated on the model or would it be best paying for some raised rivet detailing from eduard??

I'm also pretty sure that the current 100sn machines use the Martin baker mk10 ejector seat. Are these available in 1/32 resin parts??

Has anybody heard about release dates for the add-on's yet??

Hope that's not too many questions

Many thanks in advance for any info given.

Regards

Pete

The Revell kit is pretty accurate. Their are a few missing details I've noticed so far: the small naca type intake just behind the antenna on the nose top and there should be two louvred intakes/outlets on the rear fuselage top, one is moulded on the port side but the starboard one is missing. Also when parked Hawks should have the flaps in the lowered position. Some kits also have a short shot on the bottom end of the nosewheel undercarriage leg (but if you can handle lowering the flaps this is easy to replace, or get Aeroclub replacements). The cockpit is ok but will need detail added to the sidewalls and the ejector seats are depicted in their fully raised position so need worked on/replaced. No doubt other issues may turn up as I look through refs and compare them to kit.

The rivet detailing around the tail is missing. For myself I'm going to add it by first drilling very small, shallow holes in the correct position and adding a small glass bead to each hole to give effect of mushroom headed rivet. I've done this before and it is effective but it does take time. Alternatively I may yet look at some of the Calibre 35 rivets or the Archer 3D detail ones to cut some time.

Also be aware that the current Red Arrows release does not contain any weapons pylons or weapons other than the Aden cannon pack.

As for aftermarket still waiting to see just what will come out.

Andy

[jet-mech]

Many thanks on the replies guys. As far as I'm aware, 100sqn do not use the gun pod. However I have taken some shots at leeming lately that show a baggage pod underneath which I could model by making some adjustments to the red arrows diesel/die pod. they do use the pylons for ACM work. These can be added later when they become available. My plan is to complete the hawk in full FAC fit which will have to include some scratch building (which I've never done) to make it accurate. As for the rivet detailing. I think I will just use the strips of raised rivet strips that are available. Hopefully that will produce a good representation of the real aircraft. There are so many rivets around the tail section that will take an eternity to replicate using the drill/glass bead trick.

Cockpit detailing: I think I will scratch build my own Sidewalls and accessories for this model. I think there are some upgraded cockpit details due pretty soon??

Where is the best place to get 100sqn decals from??

I'm looking forward to the metal gear set and a flap set. I want this model to be as accurate as possible so I shot a lot of close up details of the hawk at RAF shawbury last Thursday

[Iain Ogilvie]

Q - do the 100 sqn birds have HUDs? I'm doing a grey bird from '93 (ish) but can't confirm from photos I have.

With regard to 100 Sqn decals there are three sheets that spring to mind from Hannants Xtradecal range, and a sheet by Flightpath, depending upon whether you're doing a very early red/white/grey/blue aeroplane, a grey one, or a black one. I have the Xtradecal sheet for the greys - which looks good.

Links as follows:

R/W/G/B

Greys

Black

Stencils

Flightpath

HTH

Iain

Edited February 15, 2011 by Iain (32SIG)

[Scarlet]

However I have taken some shots at leeming lately that show a baggage pod underneath which I could model by making some adjustments to the red arrows diesel/die pod.

It's a converted gun pod. and very different in shape to Red's dye pod. There is a gun pod in the kit, chop the barrel off and you're just about there.

Q - do the 100 sqn birds have HUDs? I'm doing a grey bird from '93 (ish) but can't confirm from photos I have.

Yes. When we sent the aircraft from Valley to Wyton they were all either T1A's or T1W's. I would have thought they are all T1A's by now. Check your references with regards to which a/c had the banner towing attachment fitted, port side lower rear fuselage just forward of the fuel dump pipe.

[Iain Ogilvie]

Thanks Scarlet - T1Ws - 'weapons' I presume - T1A no HUD?

I'm doing XX331/CK - appears to have the banner towing attachment.

EDIT - and looks like no HUD.

Funny thing about modelling - you start off thinking there are only a few Hawk permutations - then you start researching and it seems to get quite complex!

Iain

Edited February 15, 2011 by Iain (32SIG)

[jet-mech]

i will be building xx248 which is now in storage at shawbury. i saw this aircraft in action many times at the spadeadam range in cumbria. i will be modelling the aircraft in a dirty config with everything hanging and i want it to be as near perfect as my standards will let me get. i'm aiming at around 3 month to completion.

[sloegin57]

Rivet Detail:-

Also missing are the tailplane sealing plates (top and bottom) at the tailplane root and associated guides.

If anyone out there has a better shot of the mush-headed rivets aft of Fr.28 please post - also any corrections to the drawing as it's some eleven years since I was near a Hawk.

Hope these help.

Dennis W Robinson

EDIT (due to advancing years!!) As I recall, mush headed rivets were also on the outer surface of the airbrake but not on the strakes either side thereof.

(Bound to be something else I've forgotten !!)

DR

Edited February 15, 2011 by sloegin57

[Kagemusha]

For rivets you're better off using these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HGW-Positive-rivets-...e#ht_500wt_1156 they come in black or silver, 1/32 or 1/48

[Iain Ogilvie]

Been really tempted by those - can you confirm they represent dome head rivets? Wasn't sure from the subject they show them on and what's in the pics?

Don't Archer do some as well?

Iain

[andym]

Yes Archer do:

http://www.archertransfers.com/SurfaceDetailsMain.html

I may go that way in the end.

Andy

[sloegin57]

Yes Archer do:

http://www.archertransfers.com/SurfaceDetailsMain.html

I may go that way in the end.

Andy

Just had a look at those. Nice. The Dzus fasteners will also come in useful for the top panels at the rear end under the fin, and elsewhere although as I recall, the full size ones were camloc fasteners but at 32nd I don't think it will make much difference.

Thanks Andy

Dennis

[thx6667]

I did wonder about drawing out the positions on grey primer and replicating them with blobs white glue.

I'm still pondering about the nose - my first impression on seeing the model at Telford was the its too pointy (ala Italeri), born out when I got my kit and having seen a couple built now. It needs a fraction more curvature across the top. I'll try and dig out my HS drawings and data, see what the difference is.

Edited February 15, 2011 by Jonathan Mock

[Shaun]

Intresting thread, I'm thinking of how to add the rivets as well.

I await the feed back on the products listed?

Shaun.

[Davidf66]

I think the Archer rivet decals are your best bet as the HGW ones are very shallow and don't represent mushroom head rivets, at least the ones I've got don't. The HGW rivet sheets/sets are made to represent very slightly raised flush-head rivets. The effect is similar but not the same as, using the MDC rivetting tool. It could be that they produce something more appropriate but I'm not aware of any other rivet sets by them. I hope this helps, I'm just gonna keep on watching all these Hawk builds so I can learn as much as possible before I start mine.

By the way Iain, if you get your flaps done, I'll have a set. TTFN, David.

[Shaun]

Another small detail to watch out for depending on time frame is the area above the jet pipe, Revell provide 3 versions in the kit but most aircraft now have the rear white tail light displaced to the side.(This version is not in the kit).

Shaun.

Edited February 15, 2011 by Shaun

[jet-mech]

"Another small detail to watch out for depending on time frame is the area above the jet pipe, Revell provide 3 versions in the kit but most aircraft now have the rear white tail light displaced to the side.(This version is not in the kit)."

Is this not just on the hawk t2??

[Mike]

I can't speak highly enough of the Archer 3D rivets. I've used them a lot, and the carrier film just disappears under a coat of primer. The sheet might not be the largest in the world, but you get lots of rivets, and even lengths in different pitches, so you can apply them quickly and easily to your model. They only charge $2 overseas shipping too, so buying direct is no hassle - especially as they usually turn up in about 5 days

[Shaun]

"Another small detail to watch out for depending on time frame is the area above the jet pipe, Revell provide 3 versions in the kit but most aircraft now have the rear white tail light displaced to the side.(This version is not in the kit)."

Is this not just on the hawk t2??

Seems to be the norm these days-

100 Sqn Hawk pair landing

Shaun.

[Mark M]

Seems to be the norm these days-

100 Sqn Hawk pair landing

Shaun.

be careful not all T1's are like that xx331 isnt i was checking yesterday for mine it have the light in the middle

[Shaun]

be careful not all T1's are like that xx331 isnt i was checking yesterday for mine it have the light in the middle

Like I said, you need to check serial and time frame.

Shaun.

[Mark M]

Like I said, you need to check serial and time frame.

Shaun.

diodnt meant o offend shaun i think there are several versions out there, i leanrthe hard way not checking refs

[Shaun]

diodnt meant o offend shaun i think there are several versions out there, i leanrthe hard way not checking refs

None taken Mark

Mike, what size and how many of the Archer Rivets decals sheets would be need for a Hawk project?

Shaun.

Edited February 15, 2011 by Shaun

[Gabe Pincelli]

diodnt meant o offend shaun i think there are several versions out there, i leanrthe hard way not checking refs

You are correct, Mark, that there are several versions out there. I have identified 4 total on the Hawk T1 during its history. From what I can tell in online photos, there are two still in use (versions 3 and 4). I will try to illustrate all of them below. I apologize in advance to those whose photos I've copied from elswhere online or whose photos I've butchered during cropping. Here are the four styles I have Identified for the T1:

Version 1 (Very early production. Note the short fin fillet and how the top of the aft fuselage "rounds down". Also note the amount of vertical surface above the exhaust):

Version 1 on a Red Arrows Hawk:

Version 2 (retrofitted fairly early to address some directional stability issues. Note how the top of the aft fuselage does not round down and is almost a straight line with the spine of the aircraft. The rudder fillet is also extended from that used with version 1):

Version 2 on a Red Arrows Hawk:

Version 3

Version 4 (Same style as fitted to Mk 50 and 60 series Hawks from the beginning. Incorporates drag chute door, which does not appear to be used for that purpose on The T1. Incidentally, this is the same basic design that is used on The T-45 and T2, and other 100 series Hawks with some minor variations in antenna and drag chute door fittings)

Variation of Version 4 on a RAAF Hawk 127

Variation of Version 4 on a T-45:

I do not yet have a copy of the Revell Hawk, but from all the photos posted online, it appears to me that Revell have molded the kit with an aft fuselage and tailcone that most closely resembles version 1. They have included optional parts with which they attempt to represent some of the other configurations, including an extended fin fillet. This is a very elusive area of the Hawk for kit manuafactureres to get the shape right. It is tough to interpret photos due to all of the complex shapes all coming together on that part of the airplane. Once I have a Revell Hawk in hand I most likely will master a resin replacement for TwoMikes to represent version 4 and possibly version 3. It'll be a while before I pull that off though, so enjoy the kit as is for the time being guys. It looks like a beauty and I will probably build my first kit out of the box to represent a very early Hawk. (I know, that means the ejection seats will need new headboxes..)

Hope this helps clarify things on the tailcone.

Cheers,

Gabe