Rare Killmark

[chaoslord]

I finally came across online the photo of a killmark I was looking for a long time.

The incident took place in the 8th of October 1996, 9 miles off the coast of Chios.

Two turkish F-16s from 192 Filo at Balikesir entered the Athens FIR. After they were intercepted by 2 HAF Mirage 2000 EGM of 331 Squadron,

they refused to leave and things got hot.

During that dogfight, one of the F-16s was shot down with a Magic II missile.

This is the second most famous incident between HAF and THK, after the shooting down of a turkish F-102 by a HAF F-5 in 1974.

Mirage 2000 EGM with number 236 was wearing the Killmark of that incident for a little while, which depicted a little ghost wearing a turkish fez,

and with the inscription below it ''mehmetcik busters''.

This is a very rare photo and all credits belong to its owner.

[Angels49]

Thanks for both the story and pix; both are very informative. A great fighter aircraft with a sh1tty pilot in a dogfight quickly becomes a flaming pile of scrap metal.....give a great pilot a good fighter and 'e punts bottom. I think if I were the Turks I'd leave Hellenic airspace alone. Unless they deem the loss of a multimillion dollar fighter and a highly trained pilot acceptable. A thought just crossed my mind what if both units had been in Vipers...now that would have been very interesting...may the best aviator fly 'ome

[chaoslord]

Mirage 2000 is a great dogfighter. And from what it is said, the Mirage 2000-5 currently used by HAF is the best air defence fighter

in service over the Aegean Sea, better that the F-16 Block 50s and 52+s used by HAF.

What is very interesting, is the story published in this October's AirForces Monthly, where during 1994 two

HAF F-5s got their photoguns filled with pictures of 2 of THK's F-16s!!!!!

That shows what the training is like in the area....

[Yellow07]

What is very interesting, is the story published in this October's AirForces Monthly, where during 1994 two

HAF F-5s got their photoguns filled with pictures of 2 of THK's F-16s!!!!!

That shows what the training is like in the area....

Indeed, proof that its the squidgey hooman inside the machine that makes the differance...

Reminds me of another Online photo of a 'kill' - though this was in an exercise, Luftwaffe F-4F(ICE) returning from an exercise 'Frisian' (I think) with the French Air Force... look closely as the intake splitter

"Rafale Eater", shows that the old beast still has a fair bite.

Picture's on AviaMagazine.com (a good site for casual refferance), by Frits Jongerman

(http://www.aviamagazine.com/Gallery/photoview.aspx?id=3417521177)

[chaoslord]

Very very true and I must say very very interesting.

With the difference that in the Rafale Eater case it was a BVR shot.

In any case, it definitely proves the point.

[mtd350]

I was at Tanagra Air Base with 43 and 17 Sqns in 97 and

I'm sure I've seen that actual Mirage .

Something sticks in my head about the fez ghostbuster zap.

If my memory serves, I think the HAF lost a kite to the Turks whilst we were out there.

[HOUSTON]

Geez!! that is really interesting story to read...

AMAZING ...thank you for the photos..

HOUSTON.

[GreyGhost]

Yes, thanks for the interesting read and photos ...

I like the F-4F one too ...

Gregg

[chaoslord]

I was at Tanagra Air Base with 43 and 17 Sqns in 97 and

I'm sure I've seen that actual Mirage .

Something sticks in my head about the fez ghostbuster zap.

If my memory serves, I think the HAF lost a kite to the Turks whilst we were out there.

hey mtd350, according to my records, HAF has lost two fighters during accidents in aerial

combat with our friends and neighbors (!) since 1990, one Mirage F1 in 18/06/1992 and

one F-16C Block 52+ in 23/05/2006.

During 1997, two Mirage 2000s were lost away from any dogfight incidents due to mechanical

failure/bird striking, one in 28/07/1997 and one in 30/09/1997.

It is interesting to know that according to the latest HAF tests, the Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 is about

50% more effective in aerial combat than any version of the F-16 (HAF operates Block 30, Block 50, Block 52+

and Advanced Block 52+) due to it's more efficient in air combat radar, the ICMS Mk3 EW suite that is simply amazing

and the effectiveness of the MICA missiles, both EM and IR.

That's why the airforce keeps pushing the modernization of the rest of the Mirage 2000EGMs to the -5 Mk2 standard,

even though they are 20 years old airframes.

Also, they are the only ones that can carry the Exocet and SCALP EG missiles in the Greek inventory.

As far as the type of training and operational effectiveness is concerned in both sides of the Aegean,

just check the results of any international exercise (TLP, Red Flag etc) comparing the two airforces,

cause you seem to have access to that kind of data. The results are very very interesting

[mtd350]

hey mtd350, according to my records, HAF has lost two fighters during accidents in aerial

combat with our friends and neighbors (!) since 1990, one Mirage F1 in 18/06/1992 and

one F-16C Block 52+ in 23/05/2006.

During 1997, two Mirage 2000s were lost away from any dogfight incidents due to mechanical

failure/bird striking, one in 28/07/1997 and one in 30/09/1997.

It will have been the 30/09/97 one that happened when we were there as I don't recall the accomodation being busy with normal holidymakers.

Rumour control said it was a shoot down and none of the HAF boys were denying it. We suspected it was something else because we didn't think that stuff happened anymore.

Have fond memories of that detatchment, the whole det got a stern talking to from the det commander on the 2ND DAY because two guys had to be casivaced home.........Good Times

Edited November 29, 2009 by mtd350

[chaoslord]

Thanks for the input mate, interesting details!

[Nick_Karatzides]

I finally came across online the photo of a killmark I was looking for a long time.

The incident took place in the 8th of October 1996, 9 miles off the coast of Chios. Two turkish F-16s from 192 Filo at Balikesir entered the Athens FIR. After they were intercepted by 2 HAF Mirage 2000 EGM of 331 Squadron, they refused to leave and things got hot. During that dogfight, one of the F-16s was shot down with a Magic II missile.

Mirage 2000 EGM with number 236 was wearing the Killmark of that incident for a little while, which depicted a little ghost wearing a turkish fez, and with the inscription below it ''mehmetcik busters''. This is a very rare photo and all credits belong to its owner.

@ chaoslord,

Your post came to my attention and it is needed to write few words, to clear up a big misunderstanding. You mess different stories, from different time periods, into a new born urban legent. It is not your mistake - you might have been informed by others who already had wrong referencies. Keep in my the following:

In fact, the actual inscription below was "Mehmet Busters" - NOT "Mehmecik Busters"! The noseart DID happen, but the difference from your story is that...

The "Mehmet Busters" noseart IS NOT connected with the October 8th 1996 dogfight incident resulting the TuAF F-16D shotdown and loss of TuAF Captain Nail Erdogan.

The reasons I am absolutely sure about these, are the following:

• The HAF Mirage 2000 ground crew and pilot who inspired & paint this "Mehmet Busters" noseart, are well known to me and close friend too,
  
• The first (left) picture, showing crystal clear the "Mehmet Busters" noseart, was shot with an old analog camera back in 1992, four years before October 8th 1996 dogfight incident,
  
• I own the prototype negative printed photograph of this exact "Mehmet Busters" noseart, since the day the picture was shot, back in 1992!
  
• The "Mehmet Busters" noseart, was NOT paint on the s/n 236 Mirage 2000! If you look carefully, the "unidentified detail" on the s/n 236 Mirage 2000 found into second (right) picture, IS NOT the "Mehmet Busters" noseart.
  

Myth finally busted and all these fictional scenarios, possibly created by people who mostly like to inspire & spread "novel-like stories", are cleared up.

• YES, the October 8th 1996 dogfight incident (resulting the TuAF F-16D shotdown and loss of TuAF Captain Nail Erdogan) DID HAPPEN,
  
• YES, there WAS a "Mehmet Busters" noseart on a HAF Mirage 2000 (not s/n 236),
  
• NO, the "Mehmet Busters" noseart WAS NOT connected in any way with the October 8th 1996 dogfight incident because the noseart was paint four years before the dogfight,
  
• NO, the s/n 236 HAF Mirage 2000 was NOT the aircarft with the "Mehmet Busters" noseart.
  

I hope, that clears everything. As a final, yes, all credits belong to prototype photograph owner, but I could bet my World you are not the prototype photograph owner. Consider the following prototype "Mehmet Busters" sketch created in 1992 while waiting for the "scramble", as a gift. In-flight "Mehmet Busters" pictures are also available.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Nick_Karatzides

[chaoslord]

''Your post came to my attention and it is needed to write few words, to clear up a big misunderstanding. You mess different stories, from different time periods, into a new born urban legent. It is not your mistake - you might have been informed by others who already had wrong referencies. ''

Thanks for clearing it up,it is much appreciated. I did not ''mess'' or mix and match different stories, I only posted one story that I found along with the photo.

''As a final, yes, all credits belong to prototype photograph owner, but I could bet my World you are not the prototype photograph owner. ''

Yes, you can bet your world and even more that I am not the prototype photograph owner. I didn't know who it was, hence the ''all credits belong to its owner''. I never implied that it was I.

Again, thanks for clearing this situation.

Edit:

I got the story and photo a few months back from http://fox2e-mag.blogspot.com/ a well known news blog. So perhaps any gifts can be directed to them as well, in order to update their story.

Edited April 29, 2010 by chaoslord

[thx6667]

A great fighter aircraft with a sh1tty pilot in a dogfight quickly becomes a flaming pile of scrap metal.....

Just as well the RAF and RN have the best of both.

[Troffa]

It will have been the 30/09/97 one that happened when we were there as I don't recall the accomodation being busy with normal holidymakers.

Rumour control said it was a shoot down and none of the HAF boys were denying it. We suspected it was something else because we didn't think that stuff happened anymore.

Have fond memories of that detatchment, the whole det got a stern talking to from the det commander on the 2ND DAY because two guys had to be casivaced home.........Good Times

You're not wrong!

I was getting on the Herc at leuchars with the rest of the Sqn when we we informed that we we already banned from the Hotel bar- before we had even got there!

The lad who fell off the wall during his rather "direct" route back from the bar was in a pretty bad way, and the hotel were a bit worried about the lack of a barrier next to that ten foot drop onto the pavement!

I did manage to get away one weekend with a couple mates and we grabbed the first ferry out of Athens (Pyrraes?) and spent the weekend on a very pleasant island with loads of Scandinavians- those were the days!

troffa

[sovereign]

Nick, do you really have inflight photos of the said a/c?

[magwitch]

"Rafale Eater", shows that the old beast still has a fair bite.

Great shot of the Luftverteidigungsdiesel! Thanks for sharinf.