Spitfire Seat question - Metal seats

[Dave Fleming]

According to this site http://www.spitfirespares.com/SpitfireSpar...pilotequip.html Spitfires made before March 1940 had the metal seat. I wondered if there was an approximate serial range for this?

[Test Graham]

Spitfire The History, last first flight in February 1940 was P9384, first first flight in March was P9385. Now just exactly what is meant by "made before"?

[Edgar]

Modification 189 was "To introduce plastic seat as alternative design to assist production and provide alternative manufacture," and was requested from the Air Ministry in February, 1940, being cleared for use from 14-5-40. Note the use (twice) of the word "alternative." The plastic seat did not replace the metal seat, so any Spitfire could have had either type, and, even though removing the seat is a swine of a job (especially once armour was added,) a replacement could be of either type. As late as February 1945, mod 1117 was quoting "if pilot's seat is metal or plastic and has a wall thickness of less than .15". " I wouldn't place a bet on it, but I would not be surprised to find, given the dates, and their well-documented problems, that the initial idea was to supply plastic seats to Castle Bromwich, while Eastleigh, being geared up for metalworking, from the start, stayed with the metal seat. Of course, if that was the idea, the bombing of the Eastleigh works would have thrown the whole thing out of the window.

Edgar

Edited August 21, 2009 by Edgar

[Dave Fleming]

Thanks Guys!

So it's a 'prove me wrong' thing!! Especially for an August 1940 mk 1!!

[Test Graham]

Odds against a Pxxxx reg, though.

[Dave Fleming]

Odds against a Pxxxx reg, though.

Yeah, the one I'm looking at is an X reg - must check where it came from

[AndyL]

Wasn't there a photo in the 'Battle of Britain, Then and Now' showing the rather crumpled seat recovered from the crash site of David Coxs' 19 Sqn Spitfire? I don't have it with me, but anyone with access would be able to offer up a serial number.

[Test Graham]

Yeah, the one I'm looking at is an X reg - must check where it came from

If it is Mk.1 it is Supermarine - apart from the ARxxx from Westland. CB's Mk.IIs were Pxxxx, however, but you did say Mk.1.

[Dave Fleming]

Doh! I should have remembered that!

[Edgar]

I've found the file, on the seats, in the National Archive, at Kew, and, as I suspected, the plan was for the seats to be used exclusively by Castle Bromwich, but nothing states if that's what actually happened. The idea was first mooted back in 1938, but there was so much trouble with them not standing up to the strain, it was mid-1940 before the plans/method of construction were finally agreed, so I'd say that the date of the mod (14-5-40) must be pretty much spot on.

There's no hint of what the material was, but Tufnol never gets a mention, and Bakelite appears only once, when some old material was tried, about halfway through the war. The manufacturers were Aeroplastics Limited, in Earl Haig Road, Hillington, in Glasgow SW2; can't find them, so if any Glaswegian fancies a walk down Earl Haig Road, I'd love to know. As far as I can tell, Aeroplastics were the company that worked on a plastic Spitfire, but that's in another file, and time ran out. There is a modern Aeroplastics company, but they only started in 1972. Interestingly, because a lot of the trouble was cracking, where bolts went through the plastic, a company in Duxford, Aero Research Ltd., were asked to try using a special glue, which they'd devised, but it didn't work.

There is a photo (date indeterminate) of early Spitfires, with three, apparently plastic, seats ranged in front of one of them; since Aeroplastics seem to have supplied their seats in batches of three, for testing purposes, I'm left wondering if that photo is of one of those batches.

Edgar

Edited September 5, 2009 by Edgar

[Dave Fleming]

I've found the file, on the seats, in the National Archive, at Kew, and, as I suspected, the plan was for the seats to be used exclusively by Castle Bromwich, but nothing states if that's what actually happened. The idea was first mooted back in 1938, but there was so much trouble with them not standing up to the strain, it was mid-1940 before the plans/method of construction were finally agreed, so I'd say that the date of the mod (14-5-40) must be pretty much spot on.

There's no hint of what the material was, but Tufnol never gets a mention, and Bakelite appears only once, when some old material was tried, about halfway through the war. The manufacturers were Aeroplastics Limited, in Earl Haig Road, Hillington, in Glasgow SW2; can't find them, so if any Glaswegian fancies a walk down Earl Haig Road, I'd love to know. As far as I can tell, Aeroplastics were the company that worked on a plastic Spitfire, but that's in another file, and time ran out. There is a modern Aeroplastics company, but they only started in 1972. Interestingly, because a lot of the trouble was cracking, where bolts went through the plastic, a company in Duxford, Aero Research Ltd., were asked to try using a special glue, which they'd devised, but it didn't work.

There is a photo (date indeterminate) of early Spitfires, with three, apparently plastic, seats ranged in front of one of them; since Aeroplastics seem to have supplied their seats in batches of three, for testing purposes, I'm left wondering if that photo is of one of those batches.

Edgar

Cracking stuff Edgar.

Earl Haig Road is very close to the site of the old Rolls Royce Aero Engine factory (which made Merlins), and a stones throw form the old Renfrew Airport (Just north of the motorway - the line of the M8 follows the old runway)

http://www.multimap.com/s/MKv1Skzy

A quick Google search shows they were still there into the 60s (Filing patents for car roofs!!)

I'm through that way on Tuesday, so I'll take a spin off the motorway on my way home!

Edited September 6, 2009 by Dave Fleming