Masterbox RAF Fighter Pilots but with chest pack ?

[Merlin]

Hi,

Masterbox I see have set MAS3206, quite well sculpted 1/32 RAF WW2 pilot figures, the box art however would have us think they are fighter pilots, with spitfire behind, however the chap dogfighting with hands has no obvious use as he is wearing a chest type parachute harness, his dog has the pack for this. Fighter aircraft did not use chest packs, instead they had seat packs that the pilots sat on !

Defiant gunner maybe but no, they used the irvin or GQ harnessuit with clip on chest pack. I am not sure then how we use this dogfighting pose figure. What does he represent, he can't be used for fighter pilot thats for sure yet his dogfighting pose is intended for such. He wears the later type of maewest with long straps that tie up after being passed under the crotch. I think he is shown with a Type C helmet as I see what may be ear cups and he has a rubber concertina oxy hose so this all points to 1941/42 onwards. He also wears battledress so all in all definite post 1940 but what aircraft ?

I think Masterbox have errored on this figure with this mismatch of pose given the parachute kit.

This means you get two figures not three, unless you carry out major surgery and have him for bomber crew.

The pilot holding his helmet could be Battle of Britain, he has a somewhat inflated 32 pattern maewest, Type B helmet with Luxor goggles (though box art shows MkIII goggles)

The third chap has battledress so again post 1940. his maewest has the dye pocket pull webbing and is the late 32 pattern. One could by simply removing his front trouser pocket have him as BoB period to go with the other as he would then be wearing overalls ! Also round off the squared off bottom lobes of his maewest to get the correct shape. In fact this needs doing anyway., and add a drooping loop to that dye pocket strap.

The two 32 pattern maewests do in fact need the bow tied straps modding as these straps were never long enough to end up with bows that big, they had just enough strap to tie a small bow in !

All in all a good set after some editing, though the one guy hasnt an immediate use. Lack of research or understanding of the subject has accounted for this I fear.

Merlin

[Daniel Cox]

Hi Merlin,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about the new Masterbox 'RAF Pilots, WWII Era' 1/32 scale figure kit, although I consider the hand waving pose unfortunate with that figure as depicted I don't think he's all bad.

Since despite the fact as sculpted he wears a Parachute, Single-point, Quick-release with Two-point detachable Chest Pack (Observer Type) Harness 15A/137 for the Pack 15A/141 Clip-on Observer Parachute Pack. He may indeed accurately represent fighter aircrew, since that harness was worn by half of the crew of fighter versions of both Beaufighter and Mosquito aircraft.

Parachute, Single-point, Quick-release with Two-point detachable Chest Pack (Observer Type) Harness 15A/137

Parachute, Single-point, Quick-release with Two-point detachable Chest Pack (Observer Type) Harness 15A/137

As to the pose it would be nice if it wasn't what it was, yet since he can legitimately be identified as fighter crew it is possible and even likely if asked to pose like that by a photographer for a newspaper. Regarding his helmet and goggles on the box art (I do not have the kit) they appear to represent the Type "B" Flying Helmet 22C/65 with either the Goggles Mk IIICL* 22C/69 or the Goggles Mk IIIa 22C/62. Of interest as well is the Waistcoat, life-saving, stole inflated pattern. (1941 pattern) 22C/445-447 often known as the 1941 pattern which is discernible beneath the parachute harness, this would likely be of the Flap Type with the flap removed. As he also appears to be wearing Battledress as well plus the Mae West without the flap etc, that hand waving figure is largely limited by pose as well to representing a late 1941 to mid 1942 Beaufighter night fighter crew member.

Waistcoat, life-saving, stole inflated pattern. (1941 pattern) 22C/445-447 Flap-type

Waistcoat, life-saving, stole inflated pattern. (1941 pattern) 22C/445-447 Flap-type

Waistcoat, life-saving, stole inflated pattern. (1941 pattern) 22C/445-447 Flap-type

Waistcoat, life-saving, stole inflated pattern. (1941 pattern) 22C/445-447 Non-flap-type

I concur that the pilot holding his helmet is ideal for a Battle of Britain figure, it is unfortunate that the tapes are too long as sculpted although a scalpel and some sandpaper would fix that (as you infer). As to the apparent inflation of the Waistcoat, life-saving, stole pattern, Temperate 22C/55 often known as the 1932 pattern, I would say the sculpting is not unreasonable. Since the kapok filled pads as fitted inside the 'Mae West' often made it appear as if inflated when it wasn't. As usual although the before mentioned Mae West pattern was manufactured in yellow fabric (Canada for example) most were manufactured in either khaki or grey/green fabric, during the Battle of Britain many were hand and spray painted with yellow paint (usually on the lobes) in order to improve ones chances of being fished from the English Channel. One thing worth noting is that the this figure is limited to late 1941since operational squadrons replaced the 1932 pattern Mae West with the 1941 pattern very quickly once it was available.

As to the third chap, are you sure he's wearing a 1932 pattern Mae West? Since all of the features more closely resemble the 1941 pattern (some details are missing on all Mae Wests on those figures) sans Flap either removed or of the Non-flap-type.

Waistcoat, life-saving, stole pattern, Temperate 22C/55

Waistcoat, life-saving, stole inflated pattern. (1941 pattern) 22C/445-447 Non-flap-type

Waistcoat, life-saving, stole inflated pattern. (1941 pattern) 22C/445-447 Flap-type

Waistcoat, life-saving, stole inflated pattern. (1941 pattern) 22C/445-447 Flap-type

I have nothing further to add except to say that generally these figures are mismatched if posed together since it is extremely rare to see the 1932 pattern Mae West in company with the 1941 pattern one with United Kingdom based Squadrons. Perhaps for variety they could have included a chap wearing a Schwimmweste model 10-30 (Fl.30154) since albeit a rare sight they were sometimes worn during the period these figures represent.

Schwimmweste model 10-30 (Fl.30154)

Cheers,

Daniel.

[Merlin]

Hi Daniel,

Those pics will help modellers detail these figures, certainly Townsend's 32 patt shows just how short the webbing straps were on the 32, , its just about possible normally to tie them in a bow, the loops you might just manage to get big enough to place a finger inside, so modellers must trim these right down. Buckles were elongated O's and of brass (keep it very dull). Later straps on the 32 had eyelets, prior to that there was the single prong buckle and no holes in the strap ! Straps were webbing and a khaki brown or a greeny brown. Townsend's 32patt just about shows the wording FRONT which appeared on both lobes as well as wording If tapes too long tie into a bow. and Inflate by at least one breath, going by memory on this. As you say either a dull grey green, the waistcoat part being a slightly different shade to the stole (bit with bladder in) or stole sprayed roundel yellow. sometimes the entire waistcoat though the paint wouldm flake off very quickly if the waistcoat was also sprayed ! It cracked quite soon on the stole but didnt flake off, just wore through on fold edges and at areas of heavy movement e.g. at neck area. refer to pics. The inflation tube may have got painted, else it was a dull brick red./brown colour.

Agreed they had kapok pads, I think his maewest is just a bit more inflated than pads and a breath or two of air but its acceptable.

I can imagine modellers wanting to pose the dogfighter by a single engined fighter, and I think that is what Masterbox intended, but they got him wrong, so as you suggest its Mossie or Beaufighter and a limited time window.

I am aware that the 41 patt maewest came as designed without the rear flotation sheet with its kapok edge, as I have one, with all the tapes and pockets, including a square pocket on stole left front with small snap fastener and it has no signs of anything being removed at back of neck. Your pics show those with the flaps missing this square pocket. Sounds like you also know your kit :-)

As to the third chap, are you sure he's wearing a 1932 pattern Mae West? Since all of the features more closely resemble the 1941 pattern (some details are missing on all Mae Wests on those figures) sans Flap either removed or of the Non-flap-type.

I didnt when posting see any webbing straps other than again the bows, a 41 patt would have them hanging or tied short at back and front, also handles, as well as the extra pockets for bulb and battery pack etc. and the pull pocket for inflation bottle. It also doesnt have that square pocket on the non flap type. Thus the maewest looks the same as the guy with the type B in his hand, but as it has the strap around the side, for dye pocket release, I declared it the late style 32patt which featured such. However I have just spotted a double row of webbing around his back, now this would end with two 'pull him out of the water' handles at front, but it doesnt, so Masterbox havent seen this maewest through to maybe an intended 41 patt. Modellers could add all the missing straps or erase the two across his back and just add the dye pocket at his side. So he is not right as he is, neither one or the other, ooops Masterbox.

So this figure with his battledress trousers is, sort of.... for the time slot from when b/dress was introduced, not sure when but I would say early 41, through to when the 41 pattern maewest came into use, so basically valid for just a few months maybe of WW2 but incomplete or with straps needing removing. If modellers remove the back straps, he needs the bottom stole lobes extending in a rounded off way as per pic of Townsend in his dark flying overalls, fingerless knitted gloves etc..

The dogfighter is valid for just Mossie and Beau. you say valid for late 41/mid 42 Beau. What about Mossie timeframe ?

Basically no two of these could be posed together ! Modellers note.

Colours for 41 patt maewest...not bright yellow but a desaturated yellowy cream colour. Google images and 41 pattern along with 32 pattern maewest should find suitable examples, or google such as Ops3945 re-enactment group. Flying helmets dark brown leather. BoB period mask olive green material with chamois covered mic. Later on black with black trumpet and rubber concertina hose, these figures time frame I would say would be one or the other. Parachute would have a dull brown back pad with khaki webbing straps and chrome snap fasteners, harness a dull greyish off white/cream with fine coloured stitching down middle denoting age of straps. Pack a fawnbrown with darker edging strips. GQ packs were a darker chocolate brown canvas than the described Irvin packs. Good reference books are Mick Prodger Luftwaffe v RAF.

Now if they had done these figures as multipose, and Airfix did multipose once upon a time, one could pick from a variety of legs and arms, torsos, or swop legs etc. and make up a twosome if not threesome with some extra bits, so broadening their usage.

Interesting and useful pics, thanks, I wonder if the pilot with flossy hair owns the dog, they say owners lok like their dogs, hair and eyes match :-)

The chap wearing the german schwimmweste, wouldnt stay afloat for long, its missing the inflation bottle and unless he has sealed up the hole in the pipe it screwed onto, any breaths into the inflaation tube would have escaped out of that socket !

Merlin

[Smudge]

The in's and out's of all the various buckles and straps is a bit lost on me I'm affraid, although I take the point that if you have that kind of knowledge, and you wish to make a model, then you would want it to be as accurate as possible.

For myself, I found the photographs themselves wonderful. The candid, relaxed and casual nature of some, even if posed, is very atmospheric, and offers an insight to the human side. When we make models of aircraft this is something that, I feel, is often overlooked.

Any chance of some 'captions' to help me put names to faces, or places??

Thanks for sharing, cheers.

[Dave A]

I agree, lost me after the first couple of para's, but great photos, and some really great hair! [i'm just jealous...]

[PLC1966]

Did none of those Gents realise pockets weren't for putting your hands in....according to Kings Regulations anyway.

[Merlin]

I'll summarise what we have concluded here, Daniel correct me if I am wrong.

pics of the figures here

box art http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234947776-master-box-132-raf-pilots-ww-ii-era/ or google masterbox raf 1:32 pilots

Chap with parachute only of use for Mossie and Beau etc, as single engine fighter pilots sat on their packs, they didnt have them stored so as to clip them on their chests when baling out.

Chap with helmet in hand wears 32 pattern maewest, (as in pic of Peter Townsend here with knitted fingerless gloves and a dark overall, smiling). Figure needs straps trimming off as far too generous a length, you could just about manage to tie them in a bow. He may also feature the two straps across his back, if so, remove them. Refer to my previous text for colours. He represents Battle of Britain and into early 1941.

Chap with peaked cap and pipe, is neither one period or the other, so what can he represent, what needs doing. He also wears 32 pattern maewest, needs the two bands across his back removing. Also again those straps need trimming off and reforming as tight bows. Bottom of lobes should be rounded as per Peter Townsend pic. The strap on his left stole lobe is suitable for late Battle of Britain but he wears Battledress top and trousers so he cannot be Battle of Britain 1940, he becomes 1941. It took time for Battledress to replace standard Tunic so he could be one of the first users of such in 1941 as it is muted that it came into use starting 1941 or he could more realistically be later 1941 and one of the very last to relinquish his 32 patt maewest, though you wont find many wearing BD and 32 patt !!!!

If you want him to be Battle of Britain, he could be BoB if the front pocket was removed and some shin area front pockets added, then he could be in flying overalls ! Either white or navy blue (not RAF blue). They would though be far more baggy.

The side strap variant of the 32patt was introduced later in the Battle to enable pilot to pull on it and open a dye pocket located on his left side. Same shape pocket as on the 1941 pattern maewests. It should have a looped webbing strap at front attached with a press stud at either end of the loop, the strap goes to the rear of the dye pocket. The box art shows a strap hanging...thats wrong. see the pics of the 1941 pattern maewests supplied by Daniel.

Anyone wanting a 1941 onwards pilot with 1941 patt maewest will have to add the pouches straps and so on seen in Daniels pics.

colour refs and more detail can be seen for example at :-

http://www.historicflyingclothing.com/archive.php

Merlin

Edited October 13, 2013 by Merlin

[Pete in Lincs]

I'm with Chockhead.

Some wonderful, Very human photographs.

And some very in depth knowledge.

Thank you guys.

Pete